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Discussion Starter #1
Charlie, I just finished reading about John Wooter's 222-25 Copperhead in the July - August 1972 issue of The Rifle Magazine. The cartridge looks very interestinng to me. Maybe even better as a 223-25. have you ever worked with one or have any thoughts about them?
 

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I recognize the name but have never had one.

I dug out the Wolfe book, Wildcats and found a Wooters article about it that does sound interesting. He used mostly 4198 and 4227 and there are so many new powders in that neighborhood that it might be fun.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Thank you for looking her up for me and your thoughts. I did not know about the Wolf Wildcat book, will have to fix that. Still look through Ackley's books, but some of the powders are gone.
 

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It's a very handy reference and much more modern than Ackley. I've had mine for some time, but I believe it is still available. Wolfe Publishing 800-899-7810
 

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Be aware that there are two books to make the set. In typical Wolfe fashion, they are relatively expensive. Also in Wolfe fashion, they are quite good.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
In my experience you are correct about Wolf Publications. Two of their books that taught me a lot were and are Ken Waters "Pet Loads" and "yours Truly Harvey Donaldson". Never been sorry for the investments.

Again I thank you for the advice.
 

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I remember that article. He was trying to make a rimless .25-20. Something he could put in a Sako Vixen size action with a low magnification scope. Apparently it worked out much better than he ever thought it would.
A similar article was also printed some years later by Sam Fadala (Sp ?). He necked the .222 Remington case down to 6mm and loaded it with various 80-90 gr. bullets. A very light recoiling shorter range, deer and pronghorn round for young, recoil sensitive shooters. Got something like 3000 fps. with 80 gr. bullets for .250-3000 ballistics. That was also built on the smallest Sako action. Apparently it too worked very well. E
 

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He necked the .222 Remington case down to 6mm
???

FWIW I routinely load and shoot both .25-20 and .32-20 and with jacketed bullets you can easily duplicate the old HV loads. Both are mistakenly labeled as "hard to load" but with basic attention to detail they are no harder than anything else.

A buddy uses a Model 92 in .32-20 for prairie dogs- I'd like to try that someday.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
The only thing hard about the 25-20 is the tiny cartridge, hard for me to fit bullets in it, using my Lochmiller press, when I use my old Lyman nut cracker tools, I can see and feel what I am doing and it works great. One fun little cartridge.

Watched an old rancher drop 5 deer in five shots with his Mod. 92, 25-20 out of a herd of at least 300. His ranch was right in the migratory route and the deer could clean out his winter pasture in days. His family lived on venison. His son at age 12 could field dress a deer quicker than anyone I know. In those days Game and Fish could care less, he would almost pay hunters to come hunt to keep them moving. Last I heard Game and fish bought him out back in the 70's and it is now a refuge of sorts.

I have an old Remington pump carbine in 25-20 (can't remember the model #) that is also very deadly and a fun cartridge. I always smile when folks claim how some packages are too light for a game animal.

You will love shooting prairie dogs with the 32-20.
 

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I've got an old Remington ad for the Model 25 that suggests it would be peachy for deer. I have no doubt that the .25-20 will kill deer if they are shot properly.

The pump you're talking about is almost surely the Model 25 and if you have one of the carbine models that is a real treasure. They are wonderfully light and handy but I generally shoot the rifle version because the carbine stock is very short for me.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Yes: thank you Charlie, it is a Mod 25. Very handy horseback and easy to carry on foot. Before it came my way via a pawn shop it had traveled many miles and shoes a lot of wear on the outside, but the bore is almost pristine and the action smooth as they come. You can learn a lot from well used firearms and knives, almost like you get to know the previous owners.

One nice thing about them, if you are right handed you do not have to worry about a short stock and your face near the breech in the case of a ruptured primer or case.
It would be nice if there were more nice light rifles like these made today.
 

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All of this made me dig out mine and measure. The stocks are actually the same length- although the carbine's is straight vs pistol grip. The carbine's 18" barrel is the big difference.

One of the things that I really like is the ease of loading. The gate on the side makes it very convenient. And they feed remarkably well. The only downside is that if the brass falls on concrete the mouth almost always gets dinged so I tend to single shot them.

Mr. Pedersen really was good but his philosophy must have been that if two parts are good ten are better. The bolts on all his pump guns will make you loose your religion if you take them apart...actually that is easy... putting them back together is tough.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
It is obvious we have both been there, when I took my Mod. 12 Remington apart I was stuck trying to putting her back together for some time. Finally let her sit over night, then with the help of a friend and many failures got it done. I suggested that since we had it figured out we should take it apart and put it back together just so we could remember how we did it. -- He flat declined!

I searched the literature for detailed instructions on how to put one back together and could not find one reference.
 

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Opps ! I should proof read my posts more carefully. Yes, he necked the cases up.
I'm also a fan of the .25-20. I've got a Marlin 1894 CL that I've had for a while. Great round for a guy that likes a little extra power for larger game when hunting small edible stuff. My favorite load for the above would be a Remington 86 gr. bullet over 8 grs. of H110. For pure varmit shooting, then a 60 gr. Hdy over 13 grs. of WW 680 really does a number on them. E
 

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After all this talk I dug out my Remington 25 Carbine in .32-20 and took it to the range this afternoon. I shoot that more than the .25-20.

I didn't know Marlin made a .25-20 in the new run of 94s but I've seen quite a few .32-20s. In addition to the Remingtons I've got a couple of Model 92s but I seem to shoot the Remingtons more.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Memories!! I need to be getting ready for a show, your thoughts about shooting them haunted me, instead I dug out my mod. 25, spent a big part of the day locating my 25-20 ammo, found two boxes of Remington's with 86 grain lead bullets. Cleaned up the rifle and waiting for the wind to die down.
 
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