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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
"If you are an expert enough marksman to call your shots under any and all circumstances, the Walther PP chambered for .22 long rifle and loaded with Western Super X high-speed hollow-point cartridges can be just about as deadly a weapon as could be desired. It inflicts a much nastier wound than does the standard .38 Special, but it does lack the authority of instant knockdown power, and for that reason it is a risky personal defense gun--except, as I say, in the hands of an expert."

--Chic Gaylord, Handgunner's Guide, 1960, page 32

Well, sure, we all know better now, but that was pretty heady reading for a gun-crazed adolescent growing up in a gun-free home in the late '60s. I vowed that one day I would be such an "expert enough marksman"--and you know what, someday, I just might be! 8)
 

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I'll admit it... I'm not that expert.
I'll take a .45 or a .357 thank you very much.
 

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Gaylord was absolutely right.

Any .22- properly placed- is just as deadly as the baddest magnum you can find. And those who fail to understand the principles need to take anatomy 101. And practice. :twisted:
 

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All you have to do is stick it their eye or else give them an earful...
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
SpecialEd said:
All you have to do is stick it their eye or else give them an earful...
...or as Jeff Cooper said, just shoot for the eye sockets.... :shock:
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
OldStar said:
Is the lower pistol a PPK or a PPK-S?

By the time I got around to getting the .22, only the PPK-S could be imported.
It's a real .22 PPK, and wartime production, too, judging from the SN, which was the only mark left on it when I bought it. It had evidently been pretty pitted at one point, judging from what was under the homemade one-piece wood grip; had been polished semi-well and reblued. I paid $125 for it in 1976.

I never liked the original slide, which had the early "square" cuts at the muzzle, the tiny built-in sights, and of course the rebluing and no markings. Couple years ago I got the chance to buy a complete .22 PPK/S slide at a gun show for only slightly more than the whole gun originally cost me. And I've managed to pick up original Walther plastic PPK grips in black, white, and "tortoise shell" brown.

So it's just a shooter, not a collector item of any sort. It's not that reliable, accuracy's not bad, it's fun to shoot except of course for leaving the typical "Walther tracks" in the web of your hand.

The PP's all original, of late-'60s manufacture, except for the nifty MMC adjustable rear sight. I have both black plastic and wood grips for it. It's a bit more reliable and accurate than the PPK, but it's still nothing I'd want to bet my life on (although at one point in my life, I stupidly DID for a while).

I also have one of those cheap ERMA/EXCAM PPK lookalikes, and I can tell you that it's at least as reliable and accurate as the PPK. Hard to believe, but there it is. (I also wouldn't bet my life on IT.)
 

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You boys go ahead...

and carry your .22's. I 'spect in this crowd there are plenty who could make one do in a pinch, and they sure beat a hand-full or gravel, or your fingernails. I have seen too many dead men attributed to them, to question their lethality. I have also seen plenty of peripheral hits during these little "difficulties", and folks causing problems fom behind auto bodies/glass. ME? I want something a little bigger for everyday carry.

When I was a kid, the .22 was the "ground floor lobby" of defensive handguns. Now the 9mm/.38 snub fills that role, as far as I'm concerned.

"Friends don't let friends carry mouseguns", at least without an argument. I hope y'all take that as a compliment.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Re: You boys go ahead...

Sarge said:
"Friends don't let friends carry mouseguns", at least without an argument. I hope y'all take that as a compliment.
Point well taken, Sarge. It's amazing the number of people who get positively moist over a neat compact .22 handgun (and I used to be one of them!), but have you noticed that virtually nobody recommends, say, a Ruger 10/22--which would be both more reliable than the typical mousegun pistol and deadlier too due to increased velocity--for a home defense gun? And no one admits to keeping one for that purpose, either. I spend a lot of time at rimfirecentral.com, which is a hive of very rabid 10/22 fans, and I don't believe I've ever read a single post about using one for self-defense. Oh sure, there are plenty of them all pimped out with assault this and combat that and 30-round mags, but they're range toys and their owners admit as such. Mine sure are. :D
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Charlie Petty said:
"one good man with a 10/22 could have solved the problem"

What might that refer to?
That sounds awfully familiar, Charlie, but I can't place it at the moment. The Manson murders, maybe? It could actually refer to a lot of things.

I bow to no man in my love for the .22LR cartridge and the guns that shoot it, but I've learned that it's not to be trusted. My beef with it as a self-defense round is not with its power, but with its reliability. Soft bullet, rimmed case, inherently iffy ignition system--I don't care how fancy or expensive the gun is, how tuned or clean it is, or how much you spend on ammo, sooner or later you're going to hear "click" when you want to hear "bang." I spent the better part of this shooting season accuracy and function testing 17 .22 rifles (a few more than that, actually, but 17 of them formally) and nearly a dozen handguns with five different kinds of ammo and I wouldn't bet my life on ANY of them. These were good guns all the way up to Anschutz rifles, Smith and Colt revolvers, Walthers, and a bunch of stuff in between. (Some of the cheap stuff worked and shot better than some of the expensive stuff.) Great fun, every one of them--I love them all, and shoot them all, but I'd never trust my life to any .22 if I can lay hands on anything else. My kid and I have shot up something like 20,000 rounds of .22 in the last 18 months and I can't remember the last session we didn't have at least one or two misfires. On the other hand, I can't remember the last time I had a failure-to-fire with ANY centerfire cartridge that made it into the chamber. I won't say I've NEVER had one, but I can't remember one.

If I absolutely HAD to defend myself with a .22, it would be a revolver, preferably a 10-shot one.
 

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OK, I'll admit it....

Me & the Missus go for long summer walks down the quiet country road we live on, and once in a while I'll slip this one in an old Michael's belt slide under a tail-out shirt. It's more for snakes and looney critters than anything else, but if somebody crowded me I'd probably have to give them a bad case of "Federal acne" with it. It really don't shoot bad considering what it is, it always works.

http://thesixgunjournal.com/hunnerd_dollar_gun.htm

PS- Hyperlinks in the article are broke at the moment- sorry.
 

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Charlie Petty said:
"one good man with a 10/22 could have solved the problem"

What might that refer to?
Well Charlie you certainly have my curiosity piqued. :?

At first I thought Miami or Columbine but it sounds more like a military statement.

Ed
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Tim Burke said:
[quote="Charlie Petty":3fuvly53]"one good man with a 10/22 could have solved the problem"
Sounds like a comment from the LA bank robbery. You? Dean?[/quote:3fuvly53]
Sounds like Jeff Cooper to me, but I still can't recall what it's about....
 

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Yeah, that does sound a bit like Cooper.
But I don't think I've ever heard Charlie quote Jeff.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
DeanSpeir said:
The "could have solved the problem" part is very Cooper-esque, but I don't think Jeff knows what a 10/22 is!
So is the "one good man" part, but I agree--I can't recall the last time The Good Colonel even mentioned ANY .22 rifle!
 
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