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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Story at:

Don't Rush to Prosecute Ferguson Cop Darren Wilson, George Zimmerman Lawyer Says - US News

Not to mention every TV channel.

My take on what is publicly known so far, from my comment at the site above:

OK, we don't have all the facts on this one yet, which of course hasn't stopped things from taking off. What I notice is reporters asking how the suspect ended up shot if the police officer did not know about the robbery. Well, they aren't considering that this is probably a key reason that things went down that way, but not for the reasons they're thinking. As the officer did not know about the robbery, and the suspect both knew that situation and had every reason to believe that the officer approaching him did, one can see that the suspect may have reacted violently and this could have taken the officer off guard. This could have led to the shooting. We don't know all of the details yet, but if it shakes out this way it would not surprise me. Similar to some people stopped for traffic issues who react violently because they have done things the officer making the traffic stop does not know about, which sadly has happened before.

Thoughts?
 

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Let the investigation go and let the cards fall where the cards fall. There always should be questions when an unarmed man is shot by police. But people have to know that there are circumstances where an unarmed man can become a lethal threat.
 

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DavidE,

WELL SAID. = Fyi, the biggest "systematic theft case" that I ever worked in 3 decades as a LEO (well over 15,000,000.oo) "started out" when my partner & I stopped an 18 wheeler to tell him that his lights were out (about 0300), so that he wouldn't get into a TA.

When the truck driver fired a .25ACP handgun at me, it became another & quite different crime.
(An inventory of the trailer, after the apprehension, revealed evidence of a yet BIGGER crime.)

yours, sw
 

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Can you say, "rush to judgement?"

After a whole lot of years, and 12 officer funerals I have a different point of view.

All the assailants were minorities, but nobody said the shootings were racially motivated, because the officers were white.


In those same years my PD went from 400 to around 1500 when I retired. I can not give an exact number of people shot by officers but they were rare... a few a year. In EVERY case the assumption was racial hate crime.

The same groups protesting the most recent case protested ours but there was no violence. There was one "bad" shooting and that officer is awaiting trial although the case against him is far from ironclad.

What really bothers me is most of the accusations are made with absolutely no evidence one way or another.
 

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"Looters in Ferguson, Mo., were met with little police resistance Friday night and store owners say they were forced to protect their businesses with their own guns, Fox2Now.com reported.

"I think the first message is to remind all law enforcement that they are hired to serve and protect and if they’re going to sit back and watch looting, they're not serving us; they’re not protecting us," Pastor Robert White told the station.

A reporter from the station tweeted that police cars were seen driving past some of the stores being looted and did not respond. It rained in Ferguson Friday night and protesters could be seen outside until 6 a.m.

Two store owners, standing outside their business holding guns, told Fox2Now.com that when they called 911, they were sent from one police agency to another, and got no response.

One of the owners, with a large black gun resting on his shoulder, told the station that police were lined up blocks from the looting, and did not engage looters making off with large boxes from these stores."

You want the cops to "stand down" - fair enough.

Burn it all down, in the name of "St. Michael"...
 

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What I am certain of is, I'm really tired of all the back street driving on this one.

White people are quick to defend
Black people are quick to condemn


NONE have all the information!

We've seen this several times before where one thing was alleged, and when the investigation was done, a very different story emerges.

Everyone is up in arms over this, and it's a joke. White people are speculating as wildly as black people. Let the investigation run its course and let's see what we find out.

Either the shooting was justified, or it wasn't; it's just as simple as that. All the hubub didn't change the Rodney King verdict, it didn't change the OJ verdict, it didn't change the Zimmerman verdict...in every case, the EVIDENCE prevailed.

I can't think of many things that are a bigger waste of time than speculating on this incident BEFORE the completion of the investigation.
 

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Well said...:thumbsup:

Whenever there was some sort of issue like that I was often asked what happened.

My reply, "Donno' wasn't there."
 

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Kevin Gibson said:
All the hubub didn't change the Rodney King verdict, it didn't change the OJ verdict, it didn't change the Zimmerman verdict...in every case, the EVIDENCE prevailed.
:ek:​

Amongst a posting I largely agree with, I find this; I don't think "the evidence prevailed" in the OJ Simpson case. I think the evidence was ignored.

I don't think OJ found the actual perpetrator at any of the golf clubs he visited after the "not guilty" verdict.
 

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There are now reports that the officer suffered an orbital blowout fracture in the confrontation, but that is not yet confirmed by the lame stream media. If I remember LFI-1 correctly, to justify the use of lethal force one must have a reasonable fear of death or grave bodily injury. Grave bodily injury was defined as injury resulting in broken bones, maiming or crippling. IMO, an orbital blowout fracture is enough to create a reasonable fear of grave bodily injury. Bones have already broken, and there is risk of permanent eye damage.
As for OJ, if the investigators had gotten his DNA via a cheek swab, there is no way to explain away OJ's blood on the glove. With OJ's, Nicole's & Goldman's blood on the glove, it pretty much settles the case.
 

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Irish... I forgot to mention how many civilians didn't like that answer.

Tim, that's news to me but it certainly changes things,

IMO the pd didn't help themselves by keeping quiet
 

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:ek:​

Amongst a posting I largely agree with, I find this; I don't think "the evidence prevailed" in the OJ Simpson case. I think the evidence was ignored.

I don't think OJ found the actual perpetrator at any of the golf clubs he visited after the "not guilty" verdict.
I'll revise that...the SYSTEM worked. The cops blew the investigation and the prosecution blew their case. Both took it for granted that it was going to be an easy case, and ended up destroying the case. So I think the right verdict was delivered considering how the case was ran and presented. The DA deserved a loss in that one. Unfortunately it meant a murder went free.

Still the case wasn't determined or even really affected all that much by public opinion. In the end, it was how the case was handled that determined the outcome; not public opinion. I guess that's the point I was trying to make.
 

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There are now reports that the officer suffered an orbital blowout fracture in the confrontation, but that is not yet confirmed by the lame stream media. If I remember LFI-1 correctly, to justify the use of lethal force one must have a reasonable fear of death or grave bodily injury. Grave bodily injury was defined as injury resulting in broken bones, maiming or crippling. IMO, an orbital blowout fracture is enough to create a reasonable fear of grave bodily injury. Bones have already broken, and there is risk of permanent eye damage.
As for OJ, if the investigators had gotten his DNA via a cheek swab, there is no way to explain away OJ's blood on the glove. With OJ's, Nicole's & Goldman's blood on the glove, it pretty much settles the case.
Not commenting on this particular case because we just don't know. But in various cases that I've read over the years, when you're facing a guy that big, often times a grand jury would consider that a reasonable threat of potential lethal or maiming force.

I've had the displeasure of squaring off with two guys that big (actually bigger) and from first hand experience I can tell you that they don't feel punches/kicks/pain like you and I do. There's a good reason why middle weight's don't get in the ring with heavy weights. I was very fortunate that day that those two guys went really easy with me (I was trying to stop them from killing another guy); and I STILL pee'd blood for 3 days.

My oldest boy is 6'6" 340 lbs. I've always told him that if it ever went to blows, I'd shoot him in each knee cap, put the gun down and it's a fair fight after that.
 

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IMNSHO the opinion of the jury made a difference.
The prosecution did NOT do a stellar job, for sure, and the defense attorneys did a good job.
IMHO OJ got off mainly because he was a "black hero" (ex football/movie actor).

OK the system "sorta" worked, in a way. And the Titanic almost got to New York City ....
 

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IMHO OJ got off mainly because he was a "black hero" (ex football/movie actor).
Yeah, I just don't see it that way. If that was the case, then everyone would have screamed bloody murder when he got such a harsh verdict in the civil case. Or when he got such a stiff sentence for his B&E case (you don't typically get life for B&E). Not he went free because the cops and the prosecution completely blew that case. They got over-confident, got caught up in all the media attention, and thought they had an open & shut case. They took it for granted, didn't do their due diligence and got their arses handed to them.
 

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Governor Nixon Seems to Have Decided Officer Wilson is Guilty

"Missouri Governor under fire after calling for 'vigorous prosecution' of cop who shot dead Michael Brown but grand jury won't make decision until OCTOBER
Governor Jay Nixon said on Tuesday 'a vigorous prosecution must be pursued' after Ferguson officer Darren Wilson shot dead teen Michael Brown
The governor called for the prosecution of Wilson comes ahead of the grand jury meeting today to see if the officer will even be charged
Officer Wilson, a six-year veteran of the Ferguson force with a clean record, has not been arrested or charged with any crime
Missouri's Lt. Governor criticized Nixon saying he had 'prejudged the case' "

Missouri Governor under fire after calling for 'vigorous prosecution' of cop who shot dead Michael Brown | Mail Online
 

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Don't underestimate the ineptitude of the jury. Outrage by Vincent Bugliosi was a good read.
 

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Yeah, I just don't see it that way. If that was the case, then everyone would have screamed bloody murder when he got such a harsh verdict in the civil case. Or when he got such a stiff sentence for his B&E case (you don't typically get life for B&E). Not he went free because the cops and the prosecution completely blew that case. They got over-confident, got caught up in all the media attention, and thought they had an open & shut case. They took it for granted, didn't do their due diligence and got their arses handed to them.
Truly it was a little more complicated. I do think the jury was not going to jail OJ if they could help it, and they glommed onto anything they could to put a "legal shine" on it. Botched DNA evidence? Mixed DNA? If this had happened you would as well get a DNA match from a mud sample.
Today some times mixed DNA can be separated but 20 years ago not so much.
The glove that "didn't fit?" "If it doesn't fit you must acquit." Take a good look at how OJ tried to put the glove on; his fingers were spread out. I tried to put on gloves that belonged to me and I KNEW fit that way and couldn't do it. This was defense counsel trickery.
Problem was, it worked.

SpecialEd said:
Don't underestimate the ineptitude of the jury. Outrage by Vincent Bugliosi was a good read.
Bugliosi claimed that had he run the OJ case he could have gotten a guilty verdict. Maybe this is his ego speaking (he appears to have a good one) but it does go to the fact that the female prosecutor on the OJ case was seemingly "phoning it in" and not responding to defense tactiics effectively.

The jury might have been inept .... but I really think that they weren't going to put OJ in jail.

As to lack of outrage over the civil suit verdict; do you know why OJ went to Florida? He invested his $$$ in his home there. In Florida they cannot take your home in a civil suit.
And the LA jury, et al, are very happy with that.
 

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"Missouri Governor under fire after calling for 'vigorous prosecution' of cop who shot dead Michael Brown but grand jury won't make decision until OCTOBER
Governor Jay Nixon said on Tuesday 'a vigorous prosecution must be pursued' after Ferguson officer Darren Wilson shot dead teen Michael Brown
The governor called for the prosecution of Wilson comes ahead of the grand jury meeting today to see if the officer will even be charged
Officer Wilson, a six-year veteran of the Ferguson force with a clean record, has not been arrested or charged with any crime
Missouri's Lt. Governor criticized Nixon saying he had 'prejudged the case' "

Missouri Governor under fire after calling for 'vigorous prosecution' of cop who shot dead Michael Brown | Mail Online
Do we have any politicos who are balsy enough to play a more even handed neutral approach? Are they all prepared to make Wilson a sacrificial lamb?? -- 'cause I think our nation's current attorney general would just LOVE that!

We are fast becoming a Banana Republic. Oh wait, I think we're there. :shock:
 
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