Gun Hub Forums banner

1 - 20 of 27 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,678 Posts
Now THAT seems to be a clear cut case of murder. Maybe it was so clear cut that there was no controversy there. From what's presented in that article (and I'll be the first to say, I don't trust things to a single article), that guy was just a killer. The kid may have been a little-chit, but that was murder.

And when speaking of little chits...I've been rather disgusted with the right's insistence of painting Trayvon Martin as some sort of monster. Sure, he wasn't really what you'd call a "good kid". But let's stop and think about our own misguided youth. If every one of us were defined for life by what we did as a youth, my bet is, half of us wouldn't fare to well. I know that's certainly the case for me. I was a drug using criminal in my youth; and I was NOT a good kid at all. In fact, had I been my parent I would have arranged a little "hunting accident"**. Fortunately I found Christ before it was all too late, and I managed to be a very productive member of society.

** parents with problem children, please don't take that for anything other than a twisted joke.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
3,882 Posts
Kevin Gibson,

The "main-SLIME press" is painting TM as a saint. =In fact, I was forwarded an email by a friend in Coral Gables, FL yesterday PM that a "NBC-affiliate reporter" has said "on air" that TM was "just like Jesus Christ in every way." -THEN the "reporter" reportedly made "disparaging comments" about "those six stupid women" on the jury.

the other case sounds like "cold-blooded murder" & nothing more than that. = Sounds like the jury got it RIGHT, AGAIN.

yours, sw
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,499 Posts
Hmmm.
I can't say I've seen any reports portraying Trayvon Martin as a "monster."
IMO he was certainly acting as a criminal when he was pounding Zimmerman's head against the walkway. That is assault & battery.
If it's true that TM discovered GZ's gun and told him he was going to die as he struggled for it, a case for attempted murder might be possible .... but Zimmerman was the only ear-witness and of course TM is dead anyway so that's not possible.
TM wasn't a "monster" but he was on the road to nowhere good, IMHO. Had he not died in a tragic misjudgement driven event, he might have been salvageable had the right intervention been available.
In short .... too hard to say. Coulda woulda shoulda..... we don't know what path TM would have taken.

As for the Wisconsin man in the OP's story, he has real serious issues and is a danger. Maybe he will be found incompetent to stand trial, or have sanity issues, but barring that he should be removed from society (think graybar hotel not death penalty).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,678 Posts
Hmmm.
I can't say I've seen any reports portraying Trayvon Martin as a "monster."
IMO he was certainly acting as a criminal when he was pounding Zimmerman's head against the walkway. That is assault & battery.
If it's true that TM discovered GZ's gun and told him he was going to die as he struggled for it, a case for attempted murder might be possible .... but Zimmerman was the only ear-witness and of course TM is dead anyway so that's not possible.
TM wasn't a "monster" but he was on the road to nowhere good, IMHO. Had he not died in a tragic misjudgement driven event, he might have been salvageable had the right intervention been available.
In short .... too hard to say. Coulda woulda shoulda..... we don't know what path TM would have taken.

As for the Wisconsin man in the OP's story, he has real serious issues and is a danger. Maybe he will be found incompetent to stand trial, or have sanity issues, but barring that he should be removed from society (think graybar hotel not death penalty).
Well said sir.

Regarding the Wisconsin man...I sure hope he's not found incompetent due to anger issues. That's one hell of a defense and I'd hate to see that become a pattern.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
1,943 Posts
TM had accepted the thug culture and was well on the way to becoming a full grown thug. Does that make him a "monster"? It certainly does not make him Jesus Christ.

As for the OP's case... assuming the defendant was right about the victim stealing from him, this was still murder.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
13,172 Posts
Kevin Gibson,

The "main-SLIME press" is painting TM as a saint. =In fact, I was forwarded an email by a friend in Coral Gables, FL yesterday PM that a "NBC-affiliate reporter" has said "on air" that TM was "just like Jesus Christ in every way." -THEN the "reporter" reportedly made "disparaging comments" about "those six stupid women" on the jury.

yours, sw
Hmmmm. Lemme see...

Jesus Christ died for everybod's sins.

Trayvon died for his own sins. And stupidity.

Big difference, wouldn't you say?
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
3,882 Posts
Snake45,

AGREED.

I do NOT think that you'll be SURPRIZED that there are a LEGION of LEFTIST FOOLS, HATERS, BIGOTS, "village idiots" & agnostics/atheists on the FAR LEFT, including in "the main-SLIME media".

yours, satx
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2 Posts
If it's true that TM discovered GZ's gun and told him he was going to die as he struggled for it, a case for attempted murder might be possible .... but Zimmerman was the only ear-witness and of course TM is dead anyway so that's not possible.
TM wasn't a "monster" but he was on the road to nowhere good, IMHO. Had he not died in a tragic misjudgement driven event, he might have been salvageable had the right intervention been available.
In short .... too hard to say. Coulda woulda shoulda..... we don't know what path TM would have taken.

___________
cisco-ccna http://www.cisco-ccna.us
braindumps http://www.mybraindumps.net
leather-jackets Leather Jackets - Over 1000 Styles - For Men and Women
learnspanishonline learnspanishonline.me :: Homepage
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,499 Posts
Trayvon Martin was an insane dope-fiend, looking to steal the third component in his drug cocktail. His drug abuse was already killing him. Zimmerman made several tactical errors including obeying police orders and made the unwarranted assumption that he was dealing with a human.

Which is why Florida needs a "dead doper" law to go along with the firearms restrictions created by constitutional amendment.

My question to the Governor, for whom I will NEVER vote again, is simple:
Did you order the persecution of Zimmerman because:

1. He failed to surrender and die like a good little Dimmie Slave for your Moslem masters?
2. The NAACP and the New Black Panther Party threatened to stage riots?
3. The "Black Community" believes Zimmerman is a Jew, and you want to play to the Anti-Semite vote?
4. The monopolistic Lawyers Guild in this state demanded you give them more tax dollars to compensate for the losses incurred by someone killing Trayvon Martin before he had generated millions of dollars for them?

Geoff
Who lives in Florida and listened to local sources of all sorts.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,499 Posts
If it's true that TM discovered GZ's gun and told him he was going to die as he struggled for it, a case for attempted murder might be possible .... but Zimmerman was the only ear-witness and of course TM is dead anyway so that's not possible.
TM wasn't a "monster" but he was on the road to nowhere good, IMHO. Had he not died in a tragic misjudgement driven event, he might have been salvageable had the right intervention been available.
In short .... too hard to say. Coulda woulda shoulda..... we don't know what path TM would have taken.
Of course it's "possible." Examine the evidence and the statements made by witnesses and put everything in context.
Zimmerman's statement about what TM said is "self-serving" and unrebuttable in view of the fact that TM is dead and what others may or may not have heard seem somewhat nebulous. Apparently some witnesses were unsure who was "on top" as the beat-down was underway.
But it was Zimmerman who had blood on his head and a injured nose. There's evidence.
In addition to what Skeptic49 stated above regarding TM's drug use (which is itself a road to nowhere good and anywhere bad) TM had also been suspended from school after proceeds from a burglary had been found in his school locker. This was probably something he did to feed his drug habit.
It is possible to turn one's life around if all one has done is a few robberies. Once drugs become involved the odds tip against it.
Skeptic49 said:
His drug abuse was already killing him.
Barring the most severe intervention Trayvon Martin was likely not long for this world. Zimmerman's handgun only accelerated an inevitable result.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,678 Posts
I 100% believe had there not been an idiot with a gun present, TM would be alive today. Right, wrong, or indifferent Zimmerman was a complete idiot. Whether his actions were justifiable in court or not, they were drop dead stupid. I have not a shred of doubt none of us would have found ourselves in the same situation, because we would have had the sense not to push an issue while carrying a gun. I don't care how it came down in court, the Zimmerman's of the world are not whom we need carrying guns.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,940 Posts
I 100% believe had there not been an idiot with a gun present, TM would be alive today. Right, wrong, or indifferent Zimmerman was a complete idiot. Whether his actions were justifiable in court or not, they were drop dead stupid. I have not a shred of doubt none of us would have found ourselves in the same situation, because we would have had the sense not to push an issue while carrying a gun. I don't care how it came down in court, the Zimmerman's of the world are not whom we need carrying guns.
In my community, and it's a somewhat more rural one than Z's, it's SOP for us to look out for each others properties and families, particularly when we've been apprised that someone is going to be away. K-town is a different place than it was 20 years ago. Response times being what they are, we prefer to be proactive.

Not having been there, and certainly not knowing the mindset of the participants, it's tough for me to make a definitive call...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,499 Posts
I 100% believe had there not been an idiot with a gun present, TM would be alive today. Right, wrong, or indifferent Zimmerman was a complete idiot. Whether his actions were justifiable in court or not, they were drop dead stupid. I have not a shred of doubt none of us would have found ourselves in the same situation, because we would have had the sense not to push an issue while carrying a gun. I don't care how it came down in court, the Zimmerman's of the world are not whom we need carrying guns.
Kevin, I will admit that I had different feelings about Zimmerman at different times, and concede that this was likely due to the really [email protected] (you can infer anything from that you'd like and probably be right at this point) "reporting."
One report said that Z had been told to go back to his car but continued after TM. At this point I thought that Z was making a dumb mistake....then it seemed that Z had actually turned to go back to the car and that's when TM interdicted him. I think this perhaps ameliorates Z's ...."stupidity" to a degree, yet it can also be argued he should never have gotten out of the car in the first place. OTOH that seemed to have been prompted by the 911 op asking where TM had gone, not realizing Z would have had to leave the car to find out......
One can infer much from the different iterations of the story, due to media asshattery as well as boobery if not outright twisting of the reportage.
Some of the things Z has done since the trial seem to confirm the idea that either Z is not the brightest bulb in the chandelier .... or perhaps is suffering a kind of PTSD of some kind -- which would be understandable.
The incident is hardly an ideal one from the point of view of those interested in CCW and 2A rights, but this is due as much if not more to media twitcraft (love making up those words :mrgreen:) than Zimmerman's overly obsessive watchcraft he employed in his neighborhood watch.
Having said all that I still feel nothing he did detracted from his 2A rights and TM himself acted in an outright illegal manner when he confronted Z. One of the things Z got accused of was reporting every tiny thing to the authorities; one log I saw included him complaining about people leaving their garage doors up at night (!) yet no one seems to tag TM for NOT using his cellphone when he discovered Z mysteriously following him. Some people excuse TM's actions saying this spooked him or scared him and that somehow justifies his "attack" on Z....it doesn't; TM had a cellphone and had he "feared" Zimmerman HE should have called the police.
That might have saved his life.....
Play stupid games....win stupid prizes.

But yea.... Zimmerman is hardly any kind of hero ... more like just lucky, in a way.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,499 Posts
Let's NOT rehash the Zimmerman trial. But, it should be noted Zimmerman was INSIDE a gated community. In Florida that make the whole place the back yard of EVERY resident. It was little discussed but very important in Florida Firearms Law. I heard about it on a local radio sports talk show which no longer exists...
Geoff
Who wonders about small local AM stations some times.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
3,882 Posts
Kevin Gibson,

MY entire problem with what Zimmermann did/didn't do is that he didn't wait for back-up from the SPD. - I presume that he believed (and his comments to a "friend on the force" suggest) that "the guy in the hoodie" (who he didn't know) was at least a trespasser, if not a burglar, so he should have OBSERVED, REPORTED & done nothing else until the police arrived.
(Nothing would have been lost by waiting 5-10 minutes for the police.)

What he had was a surplus of HUBRIS & "TOMBSTONE COURAGE". BOTH (unless you are extremely lucky) will likely get you KILLED.
(May I also point out that Zimmermann had no way of knowing whether the trespasser/prowler/burglar, that he believed that Martin was, had one or more accomplices or not?)

yours, sw
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
1,943 Posts
I have not a shred of doubt none of us would have found ourselves in the same situation,
Suppose Z had stayed in the car and driven on to Target. Meanwhile, Kevin G. CCW pulls up, gets out of his car, and walks to his condo. On his way he is accosted by TM. Is there any reason to think TM would have behaved any differently? Is there any reason to think that it would have played out any differently? Is there any reason to think Kevin G. CCW wouldn't be defending himself from persecution by the state?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,627 Posts
Gentlemen, I am of the belief that the prosecution of GZ was entirely political. From all of the evidence and testimony I am aware of, there is no way an indictment against GZ would have been handed down, much less a conviction at trial.

This was a blatant attempt to convene a kangaroo court for the sole purpose of exacting some kind of revenge (not justice) against the "white" Hispanic.

Does anyone think that if GZ had been a Cuban of African descent that shooting would even have been an issue?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15 Posts
As an ex-Police Officer I can assure you that "neighborhood watchmen" almost always make [some] stupid
decisions, actions, and choices [of some degree] because they lack training and/or experience in "dealing"
with possible "suspects", and when they have a gun they are much more likely to be [more] "brave" than
wise in their actions.

Zimmerman acted foolishly and [unnecessarily] sparked the flame of Martin's violent nature, which necessitated
Zimmerman using his weapon to keep from getting the hell beaten out of himself [or killed] by Martin who was
clearly in command [until he was shot].

Zimmerman is no "example" or "hero" to represent we 2nd Amendment/Stand Your Ground proponents and he
damages our 2nd Amendment "goals" like drunk drivers negatively impact the alcoholic beverage industry.

There are many people who shouldn't be allowed to be "neighborhood watchmen" and/or have guns, but they
[most times] aren't "discovered" until they are challenged, tested or pressured [can't handle it] and do something
really stupid, so it is next to impossible to "restrict" their rights without negatively affecting all of us.

We'll just have to leave it to the law to deal with the "aftermath of fools" and luckily there really aren't that many
of them "going off" [with guns] in America today.
 
1 - 20 of 27 Posts
Top