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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Just as I was starting to feel good again because my G23 had a "born on" date of 8/96, I went to the GZ and what do I find? A 23 with an alpha-prefix of AYR kB!ed with factory Federal ammo. Then you've got another story about a 36 that, as Schmit put it, did a "self induced catastrophic disassembly." And you've even got a photo were a Glock with an after-market barrel came apart.

You said there has never been a documented kB! in a 9x19 but you've also documented some major problems with the G19. Soooo, is there any Glock I can trust or should I relegate the 23 to the range and carry one of my other sidearms?[/b]
 

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let me add some firewood...

This past weekend at the Georgia State Championship, a fellow shooter from Jacksonville had his G23 perform a "self induced catastrophic disassembly" as you put it, SHOOTING MINOR POWER FACTOR LOADS!

This was one of the new breed of Glocks with the fingergrooves and accessory rail.

Gaston and Sonny definitely need to look into this!

I still carry my G36, have a 21 to play and for home protection and both my sons shoot 17s.

Wonder whats the ratio of kB's to produced pistols :?: :?: :?:

Later mates,

Nemo
 

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I'm really surprised we don't see more...

In fairness there are tens of thousands of Glocks sold every year and the number of incidents is small but you hardly ever hear about those from any of the other major makers. Glock always blames the ammo and sometimes that may even be true.

I have never seen a 17 fail but think about your question Sam. Why would you want to be so loyal to a product about which you have doubts?
 

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Charlie Petty said:
I'm really surprised we don't see more... I have never seen a 17 fail but think about your question Sam. Why would you want to be so loyal to a product about which you have doubts?
Glocks are so pervasive in our gunner's society that I was wondering if there was at least one reliable model. Me? My preference is a Colt SAA or a 1911. The first is generally too bulky for CCW although I've done it in my skinnier youth. Love the 1911 and started to buy the "Beagle" as a way around the stares and glares over cocked and locked but my gun dealer talked me out of it. No, it didn't cost him a sell nor did I buy a more expensive pistol; just didn't by the "Beagle."

So, to sort a get to your point, I'm not that loyal, and will probably continue to carry my Colt Pony PocketLite or my S&W 640-1 as I do now. Maybe when the weather gets colder here in San Antonio, I'll get the P239 or 1911 I bought back in 1969.
 

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Other makers... hmmm?

I'd like to believe that because the gun world looks for them, the Glock kBs get all the publicity.

I shot a G22 and a 35 for the longest time in IPSC competition. When I didn't load my own ammo I mostly used CCI Blazer 180gr, those are kinda' hot factory loads and my .40 Glocks just seemed to love them. Both guns moved away from home early this year to to be replaced by twin 17's for my sons. The 35 went to my brother and the other to a good friend. Both get shot a lot and are still going strong with their factory barrells.

What about the other makers out there? I think Beretta had their share of problems with their military 9mm's. The 1911, as I believe we've all experimented, is a temperamental piece of equipment. I'd think that they all need some TLC to get them to work properly, but at least they don't break. I don't know about Sigs and S&W's. There's a recall on the new S&W 1911. What's that all about?

Maybe Mr. Petty or Mr. Speir can shed some light on the other makers out there.

In the mean time I still feel pretty much very well armed with my fighting plastic. They are reliable, fairly accurate, comfortable to carry, simple to operate and go BANG everytime I ask them to. We'll see what the future holds.

'til next time.
8)
Nemo
 

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Pardon?

[quote="csmkersh] Love the 1911 and started to buy the "Beagle" as a way around the stares and glares over cocked and locked but my gun dealer talked me out of it. No, it didn't cost him a sell nor did I buy a more expensive pistol; just didn't by the "Beagle."
[/quote]

Pardon my ignorance but what is the "Beagle?"

Ed
 

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Curses Red Baron

Ok, I guess I had that coming! :oops:

Actually, isn't that a Sopwith Camel? :twisted:
 

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Actually I think it was "Double Beagle"

When we talk about reliable autoloaders we shouldn't turn molehills into mountains...

While it is surely true that Beretta had problems with the first GI guns they fixed it. I had one of the very first Glock 40s and it wouldn't work for beans. It's favorite trick was rotating the fired case 180 degrees and sticking it back in the chamber but we never hear gripes about reliability with them anymore.

I certainly don't shoot every new model pistol that comes along, but I sure do my fair share and the simple truth is that reliability is rarely worth mentioning. Oh sure, sometimes you get a crummy magazine but true gun related reliability troubles are pretty much a thing of the past.

The 1911 is a great example. When I first started building them in 1959 even brand new Colts needed a lot of work to get them to run... let alone shoot... but now a garden variety Kimber will shoot around 2" @25 ( some of the $4k custom jobs won't do that). But basic guns from everybody work now without the need for gunsmith attention.

The issue should be whether or not you can shoot the gun comfortably and accurately. Most of the time we're the problem anyhow.
 

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The omnivorous nature of most Glocks is both a strong and weak point. Glocks can feed and chamber rounds which simply are not wise to shoot...rounds that are loaded way too short (or have collapsed from multiple chamberings or a lack of neck tension), reloads that use cases recycled and resized so often that they look like mini-belted magnums, etc.*

In many ways, Glocks are victims of their own press hype. There is a certain breed of doofi who read the stories of durability and torture tests and then come to the conclusion that since the pistol is 'indestructable', common sense and safety precautions can be tossed out the window. A small minority even appear to take it as a personal challenge to see what stunts they can pull, ranging from deliberate overloads to cleaning out defective cartridge bins at the range.

-------------------------------------------------

*Of course, there are probably more shooters than we'd like to imagine who are absolutely clueless about assembling a proper handload. I knew one IPSC shooter who admited to scooping a caseful of powder and then seating a bullet when asked about the high Power Factor recorded for his .40 S&W competition loads. Then you get people who swap jacketed bullet data for use with lead. Others pay no attention to crimp or over-all length. Heck, some are even lucky to seat a primer properly.
 
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as Schmit put it, did a "self induced catastrophic disassembly."
Twasn't me that said that.... them there are $2.00 words and far too may syllables for my simple use.

Sounds more like something that would roll off of Dean's tongue.
 

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An aside from the staff...

Daniel Watters said:
There is a certain breed of doofi who read the stories of durability and torture tests...
As a moderator of this forum, I would like to recognize and thank Mr. Watters for using the correct plural of doofus, which is of course doofi and not the more commonly found doofusses. We here at Amback's TGZ Forum strive for accuracy and appreciate the effort to "get things right" where it really counts.
 

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My recollection is: spontaneous catastrophic load induced disassembly or SCLID and I credit it to the worthy gunny... much as I would like to claim it for my own. :lol:
 

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Are there any other major pistol companies experiencing KB's with factory fresh ammo besides Glock....even on a smaller scale? I truly like the 40 cal. round but am starting to feel uncomfortable every time I pull(or is it press) the trigger on my G-23 and G-27. If the problem is more related to Glock than hi pressure ammo I could be easily convinced to purchase a Sig or H & K etc. It just seems like the only KB's that we hear about with premium factory ammo is the Glock......or am I wrong?
 

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O, my…

Are there any other major pistol companies experiencing KB's with factory fresh ammo besides Glock.... … It just seems like the only KB's that we hear about with premium factory ammo is the Glock......or am I wrong?
That's an excellent question, and one which most of the Kool Aid drinkers continue to ignore.

But the truth of the matter is that virtually all of the Glock kB!s I've tracked occur with commercially re-manufactured or personally (by the shooter/owner) reloaded ammunition, and the ones where "factory new" rounds were involved, the manufacturer was Federal (the pre-November 1995 .40 S&Ws) or American Ammo with their copper-plated projectiles (mostly .45 ACP).

Now, riddle me this… why weren't/haven't pistols of other manufacture experienced similar catastrophic failures with those rounds?

I submit that what we've presented in the Glock kB! FAQ for the past six plus years in valid, albeit not "conclusive" as some of the detractors have attempted to claim we've presented it as:
  1. Glocks of the non-9 X 19mm variety have unsupported chambers.
    [/*:m:wimni2n9]
  2. Some Glocks have the ability to fire out-of-battery enough so that at the point of ignition, even more of the case web is unsupported. [/*:m:wimni2n9]
Now I just received less than an hour ago an abstract of a report which first was mentioned on the G&A Forum (of all places) a year ago in August when a Federal agency started experiencing an alarming number of kB!s with their .40 caliber Glocks. The short form is that the barrels Rockwelled very inconsistently (No big news here! I have a similar lab report regarding the Model 21/Winchester STHP event from 1991 which caused "SPI") and that the Tenifer finish was harder than the steel to which it was applied. (I'm attempting to get the original report which, if I'm successful, will cause such fear and anger among those who genuflect when Gaston's name is mentioned, that I'll probably have to leave the Northern Hemisphere for the next year.)

So, I'm sure that CeePee has some well-rounded thoughts on the subject, as well.
 

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Dean,
Thanks for the insight. I know that at some point in time that Federal strengthened it's 40 cal. brass. Then I guess it would be safe for me to assume that I shouldn't have any problems with any current major mfg. factory ammo. I don't use reloads or lead, only factory ammo and do check my carry rounds for setback.
Also, Cee Pee......feel free to join in with your more than valued opinion.
Thanks again,
 

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The short answer is no. To my knowledge no other .40 caliber pistol is having that type of problem.

It is true that Federal- and then everyone- made the web of their cartridge cases thicker. The reason they did is because of the less than adequate support of some Glock barrels. I did quite a bit of measuring and found that there was substantial variation from one barrel to another due- I suppose- to manual polishing of the feed ramp which removed more metal from some than others.

I think that reloaded ammo is a significant factor, but given the bulging that can be seen from new ammo fired in some pistols it makes me wonder if reloading ammo fired in Glocks is worse than others. Of course I also know that there are many more shooters who reload without incident than there are those who have kB events.

I haven't repeated this lately, but during years past I have measured the unsupported case area on a number of new guns at a local gun shop. As I said, there was variation, but my impression is that- overall- things were improved.
 

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Charlie,
Thanks for the reply...I didn't know that everyone increased the thickness of their brass in the web area, I thought just Federal did.
I guess that I can feel reasonably safe using factory ammo in my two Glocks. I can understand the potential problem if a higher than normal round is encountered like a double charge that would probably do damage to other makes as well.
Again, Charlie thanks for your input. It is very much appreciated, and yours also Dean.
Thanks,

Jim
 
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