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Discussion Starter #1
to all,

i'm now the "proud possessor of" a .38SPL snubbie for the first time in 2 decades
(to carry as a "second gun".)
&
well/fondly remember the "old school"/1960s .38 Super Police load by Winchester, which was 200 grains of "blunt" roundnose lead at about 700FPS.
(that particuliar load "keyholed" INSIDE the K5 area out of a 2-3" barrel, but not before & was a REAL "manstopper" without being "a brutal kicker", very loud, "hard on" old revolvers and/or Plus P.)

IF you are loading such a load, please tell me where you are getting the bullets, as i can find NONE!

yours,sw
 

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IIRC, there's an outfit called western bullets that does the 200 grain slugs. I have a real soft spot for that bullet weight in .357. Last year I burned a few Herter half jackets I loaded in 1968, clocked 853 fps.

I do believe the original factory specs called for 704 fps out of a 6 inch barrel back when the velocites were from pressure barrels. You're probably in air rifle territory with a 2".
 

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Yep, Western Bullet Co. $10.50/100 plus freight.
 

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That was the issue load when I joined the PD in 1969... but I haven't seen any in a long time. I have one box of the Winchester in my cartridge collection but haven't shot any in ages.

Seems to me that Sierra had a 200 gr. jacketed bullet for silhouette .357 ?
 

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Two hundred grains from a non plus p snubbie load is going to get you something like 550 FPS. I have tried some 180 grain WFN bullets in a non plus p load and getting 650 FPS is very hard from a 2" k frame
 

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Discussion Starter #6
CharliePetty et al.,

to Charlie: fyi, i joined the OPCSO, in NOLA, in June of '69. - didn't know that you TOO were an OF!
(CHUCKLE!)

to ALL: i CANNOT tell you what the FPS of the old school Super Police .38SPL load is, as i have NO chronograph, out of a 2-3" Model 10 Smith BUT i have witnessed more than one autopsy by the parish's ME (the 2" blue Model 10 & 200grain lead was "issue" to the detectives/"whiteshirts", then.) & SAW what that load will do to the interior of the K-5 area at "snubbie range". =======> "ain't real purty!"

yours, sw
 

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Discussion Starter #7
William R Moore; all,

to WRM: THANKS, Pardner! = found them.
(CHEAP, too. - i LIKE cheap.)

to all: i wonder how those slugs would shoot in a .35/30-30WCF as in a rebored (shot-out .32WSPL!) Winchester Model 94 RIFLE, with some 2400 behind them? - HMMMMMMM.

yours, sw
 

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Charlie Petty said:
That was the issue load when I joined the PD in 1969... but I haven't seen any in a long time. I have one box of the Winchester in my cartridge collection but haven't shot any in ages.

Seems to me that Sierra had a 200 gr. jacketed bullet for silhouette .357 ?
If I remember correctly, Speer had a 200gr FMJ that that folks used in .357 Maximum and .357 Magnum. For many years, Sierra's .357 silhouette bullet was the 170gr FMJ Tournament Master.* This was later joined by a 180gr FPJ Tournament Master.

At one time, Jerry Miculek used a super-heavy bullet (230gr?) loaded in .38 Special cases in his S&W Model 27 for bowling pin shooting. National Bullet Company even offered a cast wadcutter in this weight.

*The Sierra 170gr FMJ was reportedly used by some .38 Super shooters in IPSC, and in the days before the introduction of the Olin Super Match, Reed Knight reportedly loaded them in 9x19mm for certain High Speed/Low Drag outfits to use in their sound suppressed firearms. One recipe that was commonly quoted for Knight's load exceeds the maximum charge for 147gr bullets! :shocked:
 

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As I recall from various sources many of the sub-sonic rounds exceeded standards and were for use in the MP-5 suppressed model. Allegedly the German Border Police issued an MP-5 ONLY round as well.

Geoff
Who suspects the military considers weapons a short lifespan item.
 

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Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
to ALL:

it's funny how, when you are looking for something, that it sometimes simply appears like magic.

fyi, my brother-of-the-heart, C.E. Harris, was GIVEN a 4-cavity mold for a .357 clone of the old British "manstopper bullet" by an aquaintance, who has quit casting.
(Ed says that the shape looks something like a hollowbase WC, reversed but longer/heavier.)

cast from "range scrap", each weighs 212 grains & "shoots beautifully" from his 2" Model 10 S&W RB.

the current .38SPL load is 3.2 grains of Unique.

Ed tells me that the load is accurate, NOT "a brutal kicker" & it's QUIET. - he's loaded 300 rounds each for Rick (the "elder brother"), himself & me.
(NOPE, i've not had the pleasure yet, as the rounds are at the mountain cabin in WV & i'm in SATX, right now. = it will be "self defense fodder" for the "new to me" Model 64, that lives in the boat's "glove compartment".)

fwiw, Ed says that he's also tried the bullet in the 1921 Winchester 94 rifle that has been "freshed out" to .35/30 & "it works FINE".
(the 94 was originally a .32 Winchester Special that was "shot out".)

color me PLEASED!

yours, sw
 

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Sierra makes a 180 gr. flat nose for 357/38. I load it in a Marlin lever chambered for 35 Rem. I had to run the throater in a tad and the 35 Rem for all practical purposes has no throat. In the 35 the 180 is seated about half way into neck as any lower you will not get enough length to work the feed tube and it will let out two rounds at once which is a real show stopper.

I also have a 4 cavity for 357 Maximum and it casts 222 grain SWC. Picture a Lyman 357446 with another 3/16" on the bottom and another grease groove.

I can chrono 1200 out of a 6" GP 100 but it shoots better groups at 1100. Penetration is very good and delivery is awesome.

I have a hardened 12" diameter disc about 1 5/8" thick. I set it up on edge I use it to let guys try handguns ammo from 25 yards. 9MM won't knock it over and 38 won't. 357 will do it every time.

We came back 200 yards and I let my buddy shoot it and he tagged it first shot at 200 yards and knocked it down quickly with the 222 launched at 1100.

Fackler of the Army Wound Ballistic Lab told me that round would go clam through the biggest guy I could find at 800 fps.

I noticed the other day that Remington made the 600 in 35 Rem but not many and collectors snatched them up

I have a friend in Florida who made up a 35 Rem upper assembly for the AR. He shoots lighter bullets and says it feeds fine from AR mag.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Hummer,

given suitable ammo, the old .35 Remington is a FINE deer collector (at least clearly superior in every way to a 30.30WIN, as it makes a more severe wound). - i wish that i hadn't "traded off" my old Model 141 pumpgun in that caliber, for an early Browning Sweet 16, 20+ years ago, as it was a "goodie".

that 222grain cast bullet sounds like a GREAT deer-killer.

yours, sw
 

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I need to get busy and order Ed's design for the 272 grain in 35 cal. I worked up a design for a custom one and guy kept my money for two years and never sent me the mold so he sent me the money back.

Had a guy living next door to me in 70s and he was walking death in the woods. He had a 35 Remington and he got plenty of deer with that thing and only one shot too. He was a natural which is why I got the dies. I loaded ammo for him and he moved off and I lost contact with him.

I would have liked to have got a H&R 1876 with 28" barrel in 35 Rem. That would be a quiet thumper for sure.
 

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Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
Hummer,

sounds like a great idea to me.

btw, my Uncle John, who "walked on" several years ago, used nothing but an old/"beat-up looking" Model 81 semi-auto in.35 Remington (w/3x Redfield scope) for mulies/elk for over HALF a century on his place near Sheridan, WY & seldom had to shoot one twice, using "off the shelf" 200Grain R-P roundnose softpoint.
(Uncle John was a DEAD shot, with that old rifle. - his success in taking game likely had a lot to do with his stalking/still hunting skills, rather than the rifle that he used, to take MANY mulies/elk .- as he had an "agricultural depredation permit", his freezer was always full of game.)

that H&R does sound "interesting".

yours, sw
 
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