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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
One must ask oneself that if after the unexpected post republican convention bounce in President Bushes ratings in the polls last week, if the Democrats intentionally are letting the assault weapons ban sunset on purpose. Why? Look at the political ammunition they will have. Many Americans are for an extension of the bill. Watch for Kerry, the democrats and the anti gun lobby to release unpresented attacks on gun rights next week hoping to improve Kerrys ratings in the polls. These people are sly and deceptive and will do anything to win the white house and destroy the second amendment not to mention using Executive privilege in an attempt to destroy every other vestige of democracy that we now enjoy. Thomas Jefferson wrote that the second amendment was written so that Americans could have the weapons to overthrow a despotic government. "Never trust the senator from Massachusetts that fears your guns". The people that are trying to take away our 2nd amendment are machiavellian in nature and will never stop at trying to accomplish their agenda. Let us never under estimate the evil of those that seek to revoke our freedoms.
 

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Letting it slip on purpose?
You bet.
If they push it just a couple months before the election - they will be voted off Capitol Hill ASAP.
 

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I suspect you are right. Between now and the election, they will beat Bush over the head with every incident involving a semi-auto firearm, claiming that it would not have happened if the AWB had been renewed. Never mind that the incident will have involved an older firearm, or one not covered by the AWB, such as the SKS.
 

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So, by your reasoning...................

Are the Democrats intentionally letting the AWB sunset?
The people that are trying to take away our 2nd amendment are machiavellian in nature and will never stop at trying to accomplish their agenda.
So by your reasoning, the only way the Republicans could have fought back against this dastardly plot would have been to renew the AWB?

I don't think so.....................
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Re: So, by your reasoning...................

OldStar said:
Are the Democrats intentionally letting the AWB sunset?
[quote:1fxzobit]The people that are trying to take away our 2nd amendment are machiavellian in nature and will never stop at trying to accomplish their agenda.
So by your reasoning, the only way the Republicans could have fought back against this dastardly plot would have been to renew the AWB?

I don't think so.....................[/quote:1fxzobit]

All Law enforcement unions in America support Senator John Kerry for President and his views on gun control. Wake up America. The main reason that Americans have been losing their gun rights for the past four decades is that they under estimate their opponents. It's a far easier thing to be complacent and turn a blind eye to whats been going on than face the truth. The NRA is "NOT" complacent and tries constantly to wake up gun owners across America. The greatest danger that faces Americans today is apathy, complacency and appeasement. The founding fathers of America knew that democracy would not always be an easy road to follow.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Re: So, by your reasoning...................

InPrescottAZ said:
OldStar said:
Are the Democrats intentionally letting the AWB sunset?
[quote:zuhnqpdz]The people that are trying to take away our 2nd amendment are machiavellian in nature and will never stop at trying to accomplish their agenda.
So by your reasoning, the only way the Republicans could have fought back against this dastardly plot would have been to renew the AWB?

I don't think so.....................
"OLDSTAR" YOU DIDN'T UNDERSTAND MY ARTICLE.

All Law enforcement unions in America support Senator John Kerry for President and his views on gun control. Wake up America. The main reason that Americans have been losing their gun rights for the past four decades is that they under estimate their opponents. It's far easier to be complacent and turn a blind eye to whats been going on than face the truth. The NRA is "NOT" complacent and tries constantly to wake up gun owners across America. The greatest danger that faces America today is complacently and a move by many Americans towards appeasement in every form and manner.[/quote:zuhnqpdz]
 

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You Need To Check Your Facts

To InPrescottAZ:

Well, I certainly believe we are on the same side of the fence, but I can't let your incorrect statement go unchallenged.

Let me start by pointing out that we must be in basic agreement because you seem to be supportive of the NRA, of which I am an Endowment Life Member.

However, when you say:
All Law enforcement unions in America support Senator John Kerry for President and his views on gun control.
then I must correct you.

I invite your attention to the web site of the Fraternal Order of Police at http://www.grandlodgefop.org/

If you have a "pop-up blocker" you must disable it. When you get to the site you will get a pop-up from the FOP that announces that the FOP endorses George Bush for President.

And, as they state at the bottom of their page,
The Fraternal Order of Police is the largest law enforcement labor organization in the United States, with more than 318,000 members.
I think that, generally, you will find that rank and file police officers support President Bush for re-election.

Rank and file police officers throughout the country just won a 10-year-long battle to pass legislation that permits qualified active-duty and qualified retired police officers to carry concealed firearms throughout the nation "notwithstanding state or local laws to the contrary." President Bush was a major backer of the bill, both speaking out for it and sending letters of support. I think you will find most rank and file officers appreciative of this effort and supportive of his campaign.

It is the police administrators, in organizations such as the International Association of Chiefs of Police, that support Senator Kerry.

And, you are correct. I don't quite understand your article. Or, more likely, I don't agree with your premise. I don't really think the Democrats "allowed" the AWB to expire. They simply didn't have the power to get it renewed at this time.

I'm sure that you and I are in agreement that failing renewal, they will attempt to legislate an entirely new ban. We also agree that we must be vigilant and hard working to prevent this.

:lol:
 

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D.C. Metro Police Chief Charles Ramsey cried, "Our streets, our homes, our citizens, and our police will face great danger unless the federal ban on assault weapons is renewed."

Joe Polisar, the President of the International Association of Chiefs of Police, said: "We know what the proliferation of these weapons means for our officers. This is not a Democrat or Republican issue. It's a Public Safetly issue."

:evil:
 

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Bush will win Pennsylvania is he is strong on the 2nd Ammendment. If he would just come out and say the ban is "a useless piece of %$#@" then many Libertarian and Constitution Party people will vote Republican.
 

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Ol'Star said:
I invite your attention to the web site of the Fraternal Order of Police at http://www.grandlodgefop.org/ … When you get to the site you will get a pop-up from the FOP that announces that the FOP endorses George Bush for President.
Are you telling me that they finally shook off the legacies of Dewey Stokes?!?

When it came to civilian ownership of firearms, FOP was one of the worst National Police organizations for freakin' years, and ol' Dewey (and that rancid POS Joe McNamara!) was a very visible presence in the National "gun control debate."
 

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Are you telling me that they finally shook off the legacies of Dewey Stokes?!?
I think two things happened.

1. They started getting strong letters from the members, including me, who were outraged about their anti-gun stance.

Here in Florida the Florida Grand Lodge finally sponsored a referendum among Florida members and let the members vote on their policy. The pro-gun people won. Something similar must have happened nationwide, because the official position changed.

2. President Bush supported the passage of Public Law 108-277 which permits qualified active-duty and qualified retired police officers to carry concealed weapons throughout the United States, nothwithstanding any state or local law to the contrary.

This law was opposed by virtually all associations of police administrators but was supported by associations composed of rank and file officers.

What was happening was that vacationing police officers were getting arrested for carrying concealed weapons outside their jurisdictions, particularly in the northeast. I guess the FOP finally realized what it felt like to go disarmed. About three years ago they made passage of the law their number one legislative priority.

Anyway, President Bush supported the law, both in speeches and in writing. It just passed a couple of months ago. The FOP owes him!

ON ANOTHER MATTER the FOP continued to support the (now-defunct) Assault Weapons Ban. Part of the problem there is that they voted to support it back in 1993 and 1995 and had not revisited the issue since. I have no idea what they may decide to do ifwhen it is brought up in congress again. I DO know that they will hear from me about the issue before they vote.

:!:
 

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OldStar said:
This law was opposed by virtually all associations of police administrators but was supported by associations composed of rank and file officers.
And the law was opposed by a number of us "mere citizens" who resented the police being treated as the elite. Yes, I supported the bill several years back when LEAA were pushing a nation-wide combined cop and licensed CHL carry. But this damned bill biulds on the mistaken belief that cops are better trained and are "professionals" when it comes to facing do-bads.

What was happening was that vacationing police officers were getting arrested for carrying concealed weapons outside their jurisdictions, particularly in the northeast. I guess the FOP finally realized what it felt like to go disarmed. About three years ago they made passage of the law their number one legislative priority.
And just how do they think I feel when I leave the area where my Texas CHL is either honored or there's a reciprocity agreement in place? I'd druther go without my boots than my handgun. Think I'll get a Florida non-resident license and be legal to carry in 28 of the 50 states.
 

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And the law was opposed by a number of us "mere citizens" who resented the police being treated as the elite . Yes, I supported the bill several years back when LEAA were pushing a nation-wide combined cop and licensed CHL carry.
I see it just a little bit differently.

As you state, the original bill included citizens who had a state issued concealed weapons license. Unfortunately, a lot of anti-gun legislators used this fact as a smokescreen to hide their true (anti-gun) agenda. The man who represented my district a few years ago told me that the only reason he opposed the bill was that he didn't agree to include citizens.

After the bill became one for police only, he still voted against it.
Gotcha! Another anti-gunner exposed!

Actually, being retired, I feared that the retirees would also be excluded before it was over. I am amazed that we were not.

I SEE THE LAW as being a "foot in the door" towards moving to a nationwide concealed carry law for all honest citizens. Just as the so-called "assault weapons ban" was a first step for the anti-gunners who would then move on to exclude more and more guns, I see "Cop Concealed Carry" (as we call it) a first step toward wider authority for all citizens to carry lawfully.

WHAT IS REALLY WORKING is the continuing passage of state level concealed weapons authority for citizens and the reciprocity movement. As you noted, with my Florida CCW license I am in a position to carry from Texas throughout the southeast, except for South Carolina and West Virginia. The New England states are pretty much off limits except for Delaware and New Hampshire, and of course Vermont, where everyone can carry.

Several of the plains states are also on board; I don't know what's wrong with Nebraska and Kansas.

Anyway, the way I see it, if we get enough reciprocity going, and using Cop Concealed Carry as a model, it is conceiveable that we can get a citizens' nationwise concealed weapons license going. It will take time and a lot more work. If reciprocity gets widespread enough we may not even need the nationwide license.

INCIDENTALLY, until recently North Carolina did not have reciprocity with Florida. During that period I quit vacationing in North Carolina, moving my "mountain vacations" slightly west to Tennessee, which did. I also spent time in the north Georgia mountains because Georgia also has reciprocity.

AMAZINGLY, Virginia recently came on board. They are so strict with their own people I found it hard to believe they would accept other state licenses.

FINALLY, I do know that the original Florida citizen concealed weapons license law owes its existence to Marion Hammer who was at the time a legislative lobbyist in Tallahassee. Later she became President of the NRA. I suspect that a lot of these state concealed carry laws can be traced back to the NRA.

That is one reason I am a big supporter.
 

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