[Retmsgt.]

BATTLERIFLES: MYTHBUSTER REPORT#1

Here's Mythbuster report #1. The dreaded CAI-Receiver Myth

You've all heard the horrid stories about CAI receivers being garbage that horribly maim unsuspecting owners. Last year I ended a two year research into this affair. Heard lots of heresay testimony with no documentation or pictures to back them up and after countless searches on the net using three different search-engines found one documented case of a CAI receiver with problems. One, and nothing in this documented case pointed to the receiver as having problems. Here's a link to that report from Fulton Armory; http://www.fulton-armory.com/FAQ.htm#M1, FAQ #6. As you read this it becomes appearent what happened, somebody took a CAI receiver, threw a bunch of bad parts on it, sold it to this guy, he sent it to Fulton for an inspection and the rest is internet history. Not one problem listed on that report indicates a faulty receiver.

Now, right above this report is another about a Lithgow receiver that did have problems(CAI never used Lithgows). Again, the above-mentioned is the ONLY documented case I could find in two years of research and it points to a dishonest seller, not a faulty receiver.

What we've been hearing is a Ghost-Story. Probably started by a purist who didn't like the Cast CAI receiver that's been accepted and passed on as fact.There are those out there who, for whatever reason, trying to impress an experienced person or trying to sound authoritative, will parrot whatever they hear an 'Old-Salt' state.

I, for one, consider this Myth 'Busted'.

 

[woof]

woof sits down with a big bowl of popcorn... ready to watch the fireworks :shock:

This looks like a 50 page thread coming up

 

[Nocal-Steve]

Busted

Century Arms got out of the Garand business 5 years ago(?). Exactly what makes this thread timely or interesting is beyond me. All of the Century Garands I have seen were so badly put together, that they scared me. Even if the receiver does hold together, what do you have? A poor, second rate Garand clone no thinking man would buy. Sorry. What is up with this anyhow? Did you just buy one and now have second thoughts? As a parts kit with a CMP receiver, you actually have a keeper.

 

[Retmsgt.]

Gee nocal, thanks for the expert review. I have two along with 12 USGIs. As for poor,second-rate clones, this tells me you have no idea what you're talking about. Both my CAIs will shoot right with most of my USGI(And I don't have a rack-grade in the bunch)Garands. At least once or twice a month we get posts about CAIs and guys like you all parrot the same lame bad info. Granted, it's not going to shoot like one of my AFPGs but, they save wear on my Garands and their finite parts availability.

Based on your post I'd say you're upset because I called you and others with proof against your claims. Sad.

 

[Nocal-Steve]

Busted

Top- No flame intended. I actually wanted to buy one as it had a MINT Var barrel on it! But, honestly the fake receiver was a put-off. Now, I seriously doubt any of these things are going to blow up. Not going to happen. But the fit to finish of the Spanish cast receiver did not appeal to me. The op rod would not run right, either. Century even went to the extent to have them finished in the USA, thus legally marking with "Made in the USA" tags. Not flaming anybody, just not my cup to tea.
Hey, Top, are you going back to Perry?

 

[Retmsgt.]

Sorry Steve, sometimes my old-age grabs me and I get a little crotchety. I'm gonna try my level best. got my JCG rifle all lined out and working on a problem with my match rifle. It's in the front-end somewhere. Going to Air-Gauge the barrel if I can get over to the shop tonight. It's a new VAR,groups fine with 150s & 168s but, can't seem to get it to shoot right with 175SMKs.

tell you a little story. Last year my oldest son and I purposely tried to blow one of my CAIs up. Tied it to a truck tire, attached a forty foot piece of twin to the trigger(Yes, I'm a coward) loaded a Hornady Light-Magnum into the SLED, closed the chamber and pulled the string. Truck tire raised up a little, tossed the empty about 20 feet to the right but, no other damage. To make sure after we inspected it we tied it back on the tire, loaded an En-Bloc of AMA91 into it and used the string. Fired all eight without a hitch.
Not very Scientific for sure but it did surprise me. Only thing we could find was a little ding in the op-rod tab. sent it out to Jim and he fixed it. The trick with CAIs is to find one with a Ser.No. higher than 02000. Those are the late receivers with all the corrections. CAI actually did a good job of it. It's in-spec against a Late SA and a Winnie receiver. Most of the problems were in the backend of the receiver. Safety bridge and the firing-pin heel cutout.

 

[woof]

I have to agree with Nocal-Steve about the finishing of a CAI. They are not as pretty as say a late SA or an early Whinny for that matter but mine functions fine.

Oh and so does the Fed Ord (cast), SA Inc (cast) and Breda (forged) along with the 20 some other USGIs too.

I will go back to the popcorn now that I have stirred the pot a bit.

woof

 

[cas]

Receiver problems or company problems.

I have SEEN a grand total of two. One in a store, the other belonging to a customer at the range. They both LOOKED like hell. The second would not run.

Now... the fact that if functioned very poorly may not have been due to the receiver, but rather the generally crappy way CAI assembles their guns.

A lot of people say that Century Internationals riffles are built by trained monkeys, but I don't believe that's necessarily true. They may not be all that trained. :wink:

 

[LavaTech]

Personally, I've never doubted that any of the investment cast receivers were anything other than well made. IC+CNC=precision "Goodies" galore, at low costs. Now if someone can prove to me that they're as durable, or have as good a built-in safety factor as a milspec quality forging - that will fan my interest.
Do any of you doubt however, that well assembled "M1's" made up from non-USGI investment cast receivers could very well command a much higher price than the average USGI real M1 rifle sometime well in the future? Uncle Sam made receivers in the amount of how many millions? And ALL of the "other rans" together have produced how many? Hundreds? Thousands? :mrgreen:

 

[jerryjeff]

Century...is there anything they can\t screw up?

Those are the words I live by. Have experience with a cetme(couldn't get 5 shots in a row out of it), an MAS49 converted to .308 ( another 3-4 shot rifle), a small ring mauser converted to the 7.62 x 39(that was something out of a crackerjack box). The M1 receivers, while they may work are something that illicits: "What the .... is that?!

 

[Retmsgt.]

Jerry, I've heard that about CAI CETMEs from time to time. Mine runs pretty good though. I think there's a spotty problem with them, most are pretty good and a few are junk.

What do you guys do when you get a USGI receiver that has a crappy-looking park? You repark it. Same thing works for CAIs.

 

[Bighead]

Granted, it's not going to shoot like one of my AFPGs

You got that right! My AFPG will still out shoot any thing I have! Dub out.

 

[Retmsgt.]

Bighead,Shhhhhhhhhhh. Let's keep it a secret that the Air Force can build a better Match-rifle than SA can. I got two, a 308 and a 30-06.

 

[Sunray]

The problem with Century isn't the parts they use. It's the total lack of QC. Their monkeys assemble rifles out of parts bins and do not ensure they're safe to shoot. No headspace check at all.

 

[mbarrad]

LOL! Y'all are making me feel really good about my Garand I recently got.

I picked up a CAI rifle this past weekend not knowing much about garands. I guess I learned the hard way. Rifle overall looked good and functioned fine. I guess I was happy to own an actual Garand that my senses left. I usually do not make heat of the moment purchases without doing research first. I am having a gunsmith look it over and live fire test it before I shoot it.

I'll let you know what the gunshmith finds out when I get the rifle back. I will also be ordering a replacement CMP receiver shortly once I get CMP qualified.

 

[Retmsgt.]

mbarrad, don't mean to make you feel bad but, what most of the guys are saying is true, in a general sense. CAI only built two types of M1, a good shooter or... a crappy gun. I personally have two, both late ser.nums. Both are great shooters and entirely Mil-spec. However, early in production their QC did leave much to be desired. Sunray put it pretty succinctly.



Psssst! We don't call them Garands, that's an honorific reserved for USGI-receivered rifles. Just M1 will do.

 

[mbarrad]

Just got off the phone with the gunsmith to get the SN off the receiver. The SN is 08299. What do you think?

 

[Retmsgt.]

That's a late SN, should be okay. As far as the receiver's concerned. I can't vouch for the assembly.

 

[Carbinedude]

My Century Arms M1 runs like a top and has since the day I got it, June 6, 2004.

The rest of the parts (other than receiver, of course) are Springfield GI and Beretta (yup- they made M1s after WW2).

It's a fine rifle and I paid $499 for it. No complaints here. I know it's not as collectible than a rifle with a GI receiver.

I know CAI has made some clnkers in the past; but I have to agree with what was said at the start of this post and I have said it myself many times over the years. Despite all the rumors of horrible Century Garands, the only ones I have FIRST-HAND knowledge of have been just fine.

Remember: one "I saw it" is worth a lot more than "I heard that this guy's cousin said lots of folks..."etc.

8)

 

[JKH]

Sometimes these CAI M1's are a gold mine, I bought one from a guy at a gunshow for $300 because he let the bore rust into a sewer pipe, otherwise alll the parts (mostly Italian and some Danish) were literally like new and not just refinished. I ended up getting a new type 3 lockbar off it and a Danish Naval anchor stamped sight cover/spring. I ended up switching the barrel for a very good 50's SA and it shot well, sold it to a guy for $400 so he got a shootable M1 cheap and I got some great sights for my 6 digit service grade that was never reissued after rebuild.

Funny thing about that CAI receiver is that it had a deep olive green park to it, very similar to a 1 Mil lead dipped heal T26 clone I have with almost new original finish, the receiver was also nicely machined and didnt have the nasty mold line on the heel.

CAI guns can be hit or miss but typically can be made to run well with little tweaking, I have bought a lot of CAI rifles that frustrated owners wanted to dump because the couldnt get the to shoot, my favorite was an early CETME with a like new parts kit, all it needed was a few thousandths filed off the bottom of the mag well to let the mags seat properly and tweak the cocking handle to make the bolt unlock properly, about a half hours work and I bought it for $150 shipped and later sold it for $350. Like I said, CAI rifles can be a goldmine :wink:

Jeff