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Discussion Starter #1
So my 12 year old daughter wants me to get a 9mm, and since I didn’t have any cash, I had to do some swapping. I really wanted something single column, but ended up with a pretty much brand new Beretta 92. Fortunately, my daughter had already shot a 92 and she liked it quite a bit. Still, she really prefers my LW Commander in .45 because it fits her hand so well.

Anyhow, took the 92 out with a wide assortment of ammo, and just like I remembered, it shot everything very well, nice little groups, no hiccups and all is well. I know the 92 has an image problem, mostly because it was the poor pistol to follow the 1911. But when it was adopted, I really thought the Army made the right choice. Of the pistols submitted, I thought the 92 was the best of the bunch, with the Sig right behind the Beretta; and apparently the Army felt the same way.

Now 20 years later, the Beretta is better than ever, and the Army really knows how to get the most out of the M9…in all, I think it’s a great pistol. A little large by today’s standards, but I think large is desirable for the Army (overall size, not necessarily grip size).

I wouldn't mind picking up a Ciener Conversion unit for this.
 

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I retrained out of the S.P.'s just before they transitioned to the M-9. I always thought the Beretta was a good looking firearm, but when I picked one up, I realized 2 things:

1) The gun is an overly large platform for the cartridge it is chambered for, and

2) It felt like I was holding a 2 X 4 in my hand

You won't get any argument for me that it works, and is a well made weapon, but if I was in the market for a 9MM, I'd save my pennies for a Browning!
:)
 

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IrishCop said:
I retrained out of the S.P.'s just before they transitioned to the M-9. I always thought the Beretta was a good looking firearm, but when I picked one up, I realized 2 things:

1) The gun is an overly large platform for the cartridge it is chambered for, and

2) It felt like I was holding a 2 X 4 in my hand

You won't get any argument for me that it works, and is a well made weapon, but if I was in the market for a 9MM, I'd save my pennies for a Browning!
:)
maybe you need a bigger hand- i've carried one since the days of the heel-catch models and never had a problem- granted the da is somewhat long, but that's my only critism of it- excecpt that it's not a 45acp- has far as the hi-power goes, i've GOT enough critisms of thAT PILE OF belgian junk to fill a book a couple of times over- either single or double action- i was issued one of those things and either mine was worn out or it wasn't put together properly in the first place- mag would drop out for no reason, slide wouldn't lock back, trigger would not return to the forward position-and that's just for starters-it would go f/a once in a while- the unit armorer couldn't figure out WHAT was wrong with it- maybe been "rebuilt" with inferior parts or something- i was issued another , and had a similar type of thing- this one wouldn't fire at all-no matter what you did to it- if that gun was representative of what the p-35 was, it's no wonder we lost so many good agents- and the ergonomics were TERRIBLE compared to a 1911-which i traded for first chance i got- the chap i traded it to was enthralled that he had somethig that not everybody else had- of course, i kept the 1911 and paid for " equipment lost" out of my own pocket
 

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t-star said:
.....has far as the hi-power goes, i've GOT enough critisms of thAT PILE OF belgian junk to fill a book a couple of times over-.....
Say it ain't so! I sincerely hope you get to try a "good" one some day (I've yet to come across a bad one). Everyone is different and different strokes for different folks, etc., but I'm really surprised you didn't like the ergonomics in spite of the poor functioning of the two you experienced.
 

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do you think i'm going even try with the beretta or a sig out there?- not bloody likely- besides , i'm no longer with that agency and not bound by their protocols - my next sidearm will indeed be a beretta or possibly a sig- i even had a tokarev for a while- still do( it leaves NO imprint in a suit coat) in 9mm which was superior- and had no mag safety or any safety, but a terrible trigger- thankfully, my life no longer depends on my sidearm, , but if the occasion should ever arise again, it will be italian steel in my hand- or swiss
 

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t-star said:
IrishCop said:
I retrained out of the S.P.'s just before they transitioned to the M-9. I always thought the Beretta was a good looking firearm, but when I picked one up, I realized 2 things:

1) The gun is an overly large platform for the cartridge it is chambered for, and

2) It felt like I was holding a 2 X 4 in my hand

You won't get any argument for me that it works, and is a well made weapon, but if I was in the market for a 9MM, I'd save my pennies for a Browning!
:)
maybe you need a bigger hand- i've carried one since the days of the heel-catch models and never had a problem- granted the da is somewhat long, but that's my only critism of it- excecpt that it's not a 45acp- has far as the hi-power goes, i've GOT enough critisms of thAT PILE OF belgian junk to fill a book a couple of times over- either single or double action- i was issued one of those things and either mine was worn out or it wasn't put together properly in the first place- mag would drop out for no reason, slide wouldn't lock back, trigger would not return to the forward position-and that's just for starters-it would go f/a once in a while- the unit armorer couldn't figure out WHAT was wrong with it- maybe been "rebuilt" with inferior parts or something- i was issued another , and had a similar type of thing- this one wouldn't fire at all-no matter what you did to it- if that gun was representative of what the p-35 was, it's no wonder we lost so many good agents- and the ergonomics were TERRIBLE compared to a 1911-which i traded for first chance i got- the chap i traded it to was enthralled that he had somethig that not everybody else had- of course, i kept the 1911 and paid for " equipment lost" out of my own pocket
Your absolutely right about getting bigger hands...I got wide palms and short stubby fingers. I manage to play some pretty good blues, but only on a Fender...slim necks dontcha know. Bujt since hand transplants are outta the question, the ol' 92 is STILL too big for my hands, and IMHO, too big a platform for the 9MM cartridge. YMMV.

SpecialEd said:
t-star said:
.....has far as the hi-power goes, i've GOT enough critisms of thAT PILE OF belgian junk to fill a book a couple of times over-.....
Say it ain't so! I sincerely hope you get to try a "good" one some day (I've yet to come across a bad one). Everyone is different and different strokes for different folks, etc., but I'm really surprised you didn't like the ergonomics in spite of the poor functioning of the two you experienced.
+1 on the Browning's ergonomics. I think it is the best FEELING semi auto pistol I've ever picked up.

:thumbsup:
 

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t-star said:
do you think i'm going even try with the beretta or a sig out there?- not bloody likely- .......
Oh well, to each his own. I love my HPs but if I were in the market for a full size, 9mm DA, It would be a CZ (American/Czech steel) or SIG if the price was right.
 

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SpecialEd said:
t-star said:
do you think i'm going even try with the beretta or a sig out there?- not bloody likely- .......
Oh well, to each his own. I love my HPs but if I were in the market for a full size, 9mm DA, It would be a CZ (American/Czech steel) or SIG if the price was right.
They're ALL good guns...but I've been wishing on a star after visiting Heirloom Precision's web site. Gorgeous (and very, very pricey 1911's and Browning Hi Powers). And that's with you supplying the pistol. Absolutely great looking work, though. Gee, wish I had some old, sick, rich relatives...only kidding. I'm an annoying old cuss. I'm sure I wouldn't be listed in ANYONE'S will. :rotflmao: :rotflmao:
 

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SpecialEd said:
t-star said:
do you think i'm going even try with the beretta or a sig out there?- not bloody likely- .......
Oh well, to each his own. I love my HPs but if I were in the market for a full size, 9mm DA, It would be a CZ (American/Czech steel) or SIG if the price was right.
Much as I love the (suitably, properly modified) Browning P35, I still have yet to find anything in 9 I'd like better for everyday carry than the third-gen S&Ws.
 

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"+1 on the Browning's ergonomics. I think it is the best FEELING semi auto pistol I've ever picked up."--IrishCop
Tossup with the CZ-75, the grip of which HAD to have been copied from the HP.
 

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shep854 said:
"+1 on the Browning's ergonomics. I think it is the best FEELING semi auto pistol I've ever picked up."--IrishCop
Tossup with the CZ-75, the grip of which HAD to have been copied from the HP.
The CZ grip is just fine. It's the DA trigger reach I can't deal with.

I understand newer, updated ones are improved in this aspect, but I have yet to handle much less shoot one of those so I can't say. :?
 

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+1 on the Browning's ergonomics. I think it is the best FEELING semi auto pistol I've ever picked up.
Try a Walther 99 or a S&W Sigma/SD for feel. I traded off my Browning HP for a Colt Mk. IV S70. No regrets.

Geoff
Who notes in the land of spandex and shorts the small flat auto is king.
 

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Kevin,

I have to agree with you about the 92FS. I have had a couple of them for a long time and just like the way they feel and IMHO very accurate. I guess I am just prejudiced due to my heritage, but you have to agree that there are a few things the Italians know how to do and Beretta has been making firearms when we were throwing rocks at each other. Even their WWII milsurp rifles are in the best conditions of about any country......"never been shot and only dropped once!"

woo pig sooiee
 

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Luigi said:
... Even their WWII milsurp rifles are in the best conditions of about any country......"never been shot and only dropped once!"

woo pig sooiee
Hey, that's just not true, they were shot...they used them to shoot at Facists and Nazi's when they started thinking right.
 

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Well, I thought we'd be talking about the 92 on this thread, but it seems people want to talk about Hi Powers; okay, that's one of my favorite topics anyhow. T-star, your experience is really strange, and I can't imagine where you came by Hi Powers in such disrepair. Back in the '80's I worked for an importer and we imported a little over 10k Inglis Hi Powers left over from WW-II, and it was my misfortune to be the poor slob that went through them all, fixed whateve was broken, and re-Parkerized the whole lot. These pistols had been through a war, and then sat in some warehouse for at least 40 years, and it was a rare pistol that didn't still work. There were some with broken barrel lugs, and there were a LOT of worn sear springs, but I'd estimate that somewhere between 98-99% of them were still working just fine.

The post-1980 Hi Power is the most reliable pistol I've ever encountered; I've yet to make one malfunction. But I think the Hi Power needs some serious improvement from it's out of the box state. The Mk-II ambi-safety is an abomination and downright painful for anyone who holds with a high thumb. My solution is to grind it down, and weld it back together so it's nice and smooth. My customized safeties come out feeling G O O D. And the addition of Uncle Mikes (if you're on a budget, or demand indestructable) grips, or Spegels (if you require Nirvana ergonomics and museum looks), makes for auto pistol ergonomics that are simply optimal. The only auto pistols who come close are the 1911, and the CZ 75 (but like Snake says, trigger reach is a ....reach; SA version is not bad though).

A properly built Hi Power is the best 9mm one can have if you ask me, but it’s not the best pistol out of the box. Now if it’s an FEF or FN made Hi Power, you can expect truly world class functioning, but the ergonomics can use some work out of the box.
For an out of the box pistol, I think it’s hard to beat a Sig 229 (I prefer sans-light rail). If you’re looking for a light weight carry gun, Snake is once again on the right track, the S&W 3913 is a fantastic little 9mm, utterly reliable, flat, excellent ergonomics, and it won’t break the bank buying one either. My only complaint about the 3913 is that the triggers could use a little help, but they’re certainly not bad.
I didn’t buy this Beretta because It was my first choice, the one guy at the show (that’s how rare they’re getting) who had a really nice BHP, a- wanted too much, b- wasn’t in a trading mood.
I very much like the Beretta, it’s a quality piece of hardware. But it most certainly IS a large pistol for a 9mm (or any cartridge), but it was designed as a military/police pistol for external carry. And in such roles, large is often desirable. Larger pistols are generally easier to handle than smaller pistols, and they’re certainly easier to handle with large gloves on in cold weather. So I think it’s a great tool for it’s intended purpose. Is it the best? Perhaps not, but it’s pretty darned good.
 

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Luigi said:
Kevin,

I have to agree with you about the 92FS. I have had a couple of them for a long time and just like the way they feel and IMHO very accurate. I guess I am just prejudiced due to my heritage, but you have to agree that there are a few things the Italians know how to do and Beretta has been making firearms when we were throwing rocks at each other. Even their WWII milsurp rifles are in the best conditions of about any country......"never been shot and only dropped once!"

woo pig sooiee
there's an old saying" a seal isn't a seal until he tastes ITALIAN STEEL'- that's how i got my beretta- one of the guys in the italian offoce made a call to his cousin( luigi, btw) in milano, who told his cousin gladio, and the next thing i get a package- i probably OWE somebody in milan still- not to infer i was a seal, just so you can see how things werke over there- i'm still waiting on "uncle guido " to deliver a bm59
 

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kevin gibson: the difference is that you had a PROPER armourer, and probably all the specialized tools-all we had was a field agent that flunked the physical, been in too long to be let go - you know the type- they used to call it a s*it bird
when you turn in a n/s firearm, it goes in the n/s bin, no questions asked-and if there's no replacement on the shelf, it's desk until you get a replacement-but you couldn't get into "the cage" to try a mix and match manouvre to make those n/s arms werke- that was verboden
 

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GUYS,

I just can't afford a lot of pistols. Over the years I have gotten a GM 1911 in .45 and one in .38 Super. Also a Beretta-made Browning BDA in 9mm. I have added a Bomar rear sight and staked a higher front sight to the .45 and added thumb rest grip. I have replaced the mainspring housings of both GM's with flat ones but I've kept the arched housings if I ever want to change. back. I would like to get a .22 conversion unit for the .45 but don't have the werewithall to purchase one yet.

The Browning is a good one, 13 shot mag, SS frame and slide. I like the idea that you can drop the hammer with the safety, then take it off and shoot double action. I carry this one quite often and it never seems to print. It's usually in a belt slide holster but I have nylon IWB one too. The wood grips are OK but I do want to change them when I can find sonething else.

I sometimes carry a mouse gun, a Baby Browning in .25. That's when I don't have enough cover for the big ones. I know it's not very smart but at least it is a gun and I do know how to shoot.

I've never had an HP but I have read about them and the M92 also. I think out local PD issues them to the officers. Maybe I can save up enough to by a used HP one of these days.


BobMac
 

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One of my frequent carry guns is a Mk III BHP. It's exceptionally reliable, even with cheap ProMags. (Bought some during the dark days of the AWB - fired well over 1000 rounds over a weekend class with ZERO malfunctions.) But only carry with Browning mags.

Kevin Gibson said:
. . . The Mk-II ambi-safety is an abomination and downright painful for anyone who holds with a high thumb . . .
No problem with the Mk-III ambi safety.

My only fundamental (i.e., difficult to correct) criticism of the BHP design is the long trigger reset. Pointability is FAR superior to most SIGs and S&W pistols, and with Spegel grips it's downright fun to shoot.

Also have a Beretta 92G Elite. This pistol, if a bit large, seems like it ought to be accurate. But for some reason, in my hands, even though I manage trigger pull and sight alignment, groups are still too big. Not quite patterns, but close. It feels like it ought to shoot, but the holes in the target say otherwise. :?:

Pick up another pistol, groups tighten. Pick up the Beretta, groups expand. Field stripped, all seems well. Nothing out of the ordinary regarding looseness, bad crown, etc. It just doesn't shoot like it ought to in my hands. So it spends most of the time in the back of my safe. When I have a chance, I'll try it again and see if I can figure out what's going on.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
I've never encountered an inaccurate Beretta, even going back to the 1934 and 1951 models, they just always tend to shoot. If yours doesn't shoot, then something's wrong either with the barrel or how the barrel is fit.
 
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