[IrishCop]

Anybody else see this? Pretty interesting, especially the German Governments complaints about the G-36. "It has no place..." in the German military?

Personally, I am not familiar with this weapon. Anybody have any knowledge of it being "inaccurate" at "higher temperatures"?

And don't all firearms lose some measure of accuracy as they heat up?

I wonder just how bad this "problem" really is...or if it all political in nature.

http://news.yahoo.com/germany-turns-top-gunmaker-121928120--sector.html

 

[Snake45]

I wonder just how bad this "problem" really is...or if it all political in nature.

In my experience/observation, virtually ALL of today's problems are "political in nature."

 

[stand watie]

Snake45,

WELL SAID.

yours, sw

 

[William R. Moore]

I'm not sure if HK originated non-metallic firearm structural parts, but they certainly went really extensive with it's use on the G36. I have heard that in extensive and extended firing, some issues have become apparent.

I haven't actually fired one, but in handling it, the human engineering is outstanding-except for HK's penchant for really weird rear sights. It probably works well but it looks like a Lego paddle for a sidewheel steamboat.

In the linked article, it notes that the Bundeswehr has been using the G36 without problems for decades. However, there's a vast difference between decades of training and actual combat, where some stuff engineers never consider/envision may happen.

I don't know how long the G3 has been in service, but the Iranians are still using ones they acquired when the Shah was still the boss.

 

[CaptainGyro]

The linked article makes it sound like Germany doesn't appreciate H&K anymore.

I have a few of their weapons, and they are among the finest I own. I for one would welcome them with open arms if they decided to relocate to a freer country.

 

[IrishCop]

In my experience/observation, virtually ALL of today's problems are "political in nature."

Well Snake, I have to admit I'm right there with you. Politics will be the death of us.

Mr. Moore, I certainly have no idea who originated the "non-metallic" approach to gun making, but wasn't their VP70z (I think that was the one) the first true polymer pistol, albeit an unsuccessful one?

We have 4 of their UMP 40's in our inventory. Pretty sure the bolt and barrel and I would assume some of the fire control group, are the only metal in them.

Mike, I have respect for HK and the products they put out, but they're starting to sound a whole lot like Glock when it comes to promoting their products.

 

[William R. Moore]

I can't swear the VP70Z takes the title of first, but it sure was there early on. IIRC the origin story on that one, it was allegedly designed to fill a really specific niche for German special ops folks. That niche involved a need for a compact machine pistol that would have a long and happy life shooting really specialized ammunition.

I'm not sure why someone decided to try to market it as a conventional sidearm. I'd hope that in the original iteration the trigger was lighter when the stock was attached. Prior to hearing the story noted above, I kinda figured someone decided to try out several novel ideas at the same time with rather predictable results.

I will say that an unintentional discharge should have been impossible.

 

[t-star]

no matter how well a gun is designed, somewhere , somehow ,a gomer is going to figger a way to get an " accidental " discharge- reminds me of the early glocks where the guy took it to pieces ,put a round in the chamber , pulled the trigger assembly to about 3/4s and reassembled the gun- or so I was told- of course ,the gun went off- just like our rcmp took mp5s apart , and to prove they could go full auto, conveniently left the change lever/ safety out

 

[Kevin Gibson]

The G36 has ALWAYS had this problem...but I surmise that palms were greased and it "went away". When we were looking at the XM8, which is heavily based on the G36, we recognized the heat problem very early on and rejected the design. There is no way this isn't linked to corruption. There is no way no one never noticed this problem...no f-ing way. Someone covered it all up, and now it's coming out. I hope they catch the SOB who covered it all up.

But this much I'll lay odds on right now. The "solution" will involve more money in the coffers of H&K. Whether it's "fixing" the G36, or replacing it with another H&K rifle.

H&K knows how to buy off politicians with the best of them.

 

[William R. Moore]

Dunno about bribery, I expect nationalism/NIH syndrome had a lot to do with it. Kinda like our refusal to field the FN-FAL and adoption of the M14, and selection of the M60 over the MAG58. That's just off the top of my head.

 

[Kevin Gibson]

Dunno about bribery, I expect nationalism/NIH syndrome had a lot to do with it. Kinda like our refusal to field the FN-FAL and adoption of the M14, and selection of the M60 over the MAG58. That's just off the top of my head.

I certainly can see the nationalism thing. But they already had a good 5.56 (albeit very heavy) in the G33. They could have continued with the G33 until the issue was addressed. That's why I say some monkey business was afoot. Seriously, how do you not see heat issues when addressing a select fire infantry weapon?

 

[Tim Burke]

I will say that an unintentional discharge should have been impossible.

Intentional discharges weren't easy.

 

[Diamondback]

Makes me wonder if Heckler und Koch didn't toss a "Because You SUCK and We HATE YOU" one time too many or on the wrong person and they finally exceeded even the Germans' limits for Teutonic Haughtiness tolerance... LOL

"Couldn't happen to nicer people..."

 

[William R. Moore]

You always have several competing factors in production of any product. Specific to firearms, someone is always whining about weight. Then, add in universal cost pressure and the desire of both end users and manufacturers to have something "new & improved". Plus, a great many engineers seem afflicted with a burning desire to demonstrate their grasp of all available (and new) technologies.

They certainly wouldn't be the first arms company to use an army as Beta testers for a product. I think Herren H & K spent almost 10 years perfecting the roller locking system. IIRC, the Spanish Army was the Beta tester there with the CETME. Heck, look at the miserable thing the UK MOD saddled the Royal Army with. Or, closer to home, the first production versions of the M1 and M16 and the Congressional fusses over those.

I'm not defending HK-or anyone else-who shoves a poorly developed and tested product on infantrymen. On the other hand, as I've noted above, it sure isn't unknown. Then there's the unending ingenuity of the basic infantryman world wide to manage to break nearly anything.

Despite it's looks, the UMP subgun that replaced the MP5 seems to work well and have a long list of satisfied users.