Better than the PPK?
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Sig P938...essentially a pocket-sized 9mm 1911.
I've tried the M&P Shield, the Kimber Solo, the SCCY CPX2, two 3" Model 60's, and a variety of pocket pistols borrowed from others. Of them all, the 938 was my hands-down favorite. It feels the best, has a good trigger, holds 7+1 of a potent round, and can be had with a variety of finishes and grips. Plus, it's amazingly accurate (I can pretty consistently hit a 16" steel gong at 70 yards with it). It's been a long time since I've held a PPK but I'm pretty sure the 938 is smaller.
A friend recommended the 938 to me, and I'm glad he did. If you haven't tried one I encourage you to do so.
I've tried the M&P Shield, the Kimber Solo, the SCCY CPX2, two 3" Model 60's, and a variety of pocket pistols borrowed from others. Of them all, the 938 was my hands-down favorite. It feels the best, has a good trigger, holds 7+1 of a potent round, and can be had with a variety of finishes and grips. Plus, it's amazingly accurate (I can pretty consistently hit a 16" steel gong at 70 yards with it). It's been a long time since I've held a PPK but I'm pretty sure the 938 is smaller.
A friend recommended the 938 to me, and I'm glad he did. If you haven't tried one I encourage you to do so.
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10,462 Posts
When I was very young I had an old BP Colt SAA loaded with 5 beans in the wheel and carried sans holster. When I got a little older I bought a Colt 1911 Government Model and I'd carried it Mexican style. Later I wore the pockets out in my slacks and suit pants with a S&W 36 as someone had walked off with my Air Weight 37. Then I got a S&W 640-2 but now I pack a Colt Pony Pockelite that's had the sights removed, a grove cut in the slide and a bar dot tritium sight installed and the whole thing "melted." Since I wear jeans drawing the Colt in a car or truck is out of the question so I a S&W 36 in the hiddy hole in the console of the Avalon.
For a short time I used a SIG P239 in 357 SIG in an IWB Milt Sparks holster. With all the crud going on I may go back to it or one of my 1911s.
If memory serves me right, I think Steve Wenger used to carry a brace of S&W 640s.
The Army was not alawys paranoid about personal weapons and the CO, XO and Jag all knew Kersh had a pistol somewhere within reach.
This ended about 1976 or there abouts.
For a short time I used a SIG P239 in 357 SIG in an IWB Milt Sparks holster. With all the crud going on I may go back to it or one of my 1911s.
If memory serves me right, I think Steve Wenger used to carry a brace of S&W 640s.
The Army was not alawys paranoid about personal weapons and the CO, XO and Jag all knew Kersh had a pistol somewhere within reach.
This ended about 1976 or there abouts. 
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2,484 Posts
I like a pistol you can get all three fingers around solidly. I had a PPK/s in .380, but it twisted in my grip worse than a .45 CLW lightweight. Now I carry a Kahr P9094n in a way that allows me to use the long magazines.
The Kahr "C" series is less expensive and has a night sight option.
Geoff
Who notes some folks have done good work with Ruger LC9s Pro models.
The Kahr "C" series is less expensive and has a night sight option.
Geoff
Who notes some folks have done good work with Ruger LC9s Pro models.
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I should hope so; the one you usually shoot on is 14"...
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Better than the PPK is a pretty broad field. There's the product improved PPK that Sig made... the P230 & the P232. Better ergonomics, more reliable, lighter in the alloy frame, but still blowback, so you get more recoil than you really want from a rather anemic round.
There's the Colt line, best exemplified by the 380 Govt model. Similar size, same round, but locked breech. Virtually no recoil.
The Sig CaptainGyro touts is similar to the Colt, in 9mm.
The PPK is heavy enough that it really ought to be in a holster. There are all sorts of fantastic plastic if you are going to have a holster. GLOCK™, HK, XD, Walther (!), & M&P are all good choices, are all available as both full size and compact pistols.
And, if you really want a pocket gun, the Shield & the XDs are available in 9x19 & 45 ACP.
If you are looking for something for a contact distance fight, the Aluminum & Scandium J-frames are an option. I think the 640 is heavy enough to need a holster, too.
There's the Colt line, best exemplified by the 380 Govt model. Similar size, same round, but locked breech. Virtually no recoil.
The Sig CaptainGyro touts is similar to the Colt, in 9mm.
The PPK is heavy enough that it really ought to be in a holster. There are all sorts of fantastic plastic if you are going to have a holster. GLOCK™, HK, XD, Walther (!), & M&P are all good choices, are all available as both full size and compact pistols.
And, if you really want a pocket gun, the Shield & the XDs are available in 9x19 & 45 ACP.
If you are looking for something for a contact distance fight, the Aluminum & Scandium J-frames are an option. I think the 640 is heavy enough to need a holster, too.
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538 Posts
I'm thinking that having a hammer beats ejecting (clearing) a hot dud, but up close and personal it's probably better to get into the habit of just clearing a failure to fire. .45 beats 9 mm, which beats .380 (9 mm short). But a 9 mm SAO has all the draw backs of the 1911 without the .45 ACP payout. While it may be a pipsqueak, I've yet to hear of anyone failing to survive due to a malfunction of thier PPK?
Back when I carried a CCW revolver, it was the Charter Arms Target Bulldog. 4 inch barrel, .44 Special, 19 ounces. Looking for a CC Pistol to retire the PPK once and for all.
Back when I carried a CCW revolver, it was the Charter Arms Target Bulldog. 4 inch barrel, .44 Special, 19 ounces. Looking for a CC Pistol to retire the PPK once and for all.
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1,257 Posts
The PP series Walther's are sort of the 1911 of .380 autos.
The quality was very high and no one ever managed to squeeze so many features in such a small package.
Like the 1911 it was the .380 that all others were judged by.
The design today is somewhat dated, but the Walther can still deliver the goods.
I owed two .380 PPK/s models and did carry them on occasion.
When I bought a Kahr Arms K9 I found the Kahr was as small as the PPK/s, had a much simpler design, better sights, better trigger, better grip, and was a full power 9mm.
I traded the stainless PPK/s off since the K9 was very effectively a better defense gun.
I experimented with a lot of carry guns years ago and finally settled on the Kahr Arms K9 stainless.
It's one of the VERY few handguns I ever owned that has never jammed or given any trouble.
To be fair, both of my .380 PPK/s guns also were 100% reliable even with reloaded lead bullet ammo.
Internally K9 is as smoothly finished as most older guns were outside.
The PPK/s stainless especially, had some razor sharp edges that I rounded off.
It just "fits" and feels like a miniature Browning Hi Power or CZ-75.
It's as simple as a handgun can get and is a "Pull, Point, and Shoot" gun with no manual safeties to be concerned with.
The outside is a clean design without the usual levers, safeties, and switches, and all edges and corners are rounded and smooth.
It has an extremely high "shootability".
It's as safe as a double action revolver. Unlike guns like the S&W M&P or Glock which have very short trigger pulls, the trigger is like a double action revolver and requires a long pull of the trigger to fire.
The long trigger pull makes it as safe to carry as a DA revolver, and while I don't, you could safely carry it without a holster.
Sights are excellent, and it's as small as most 1980's .380 pistols were.
Unlike many small autos, it was designed to be good to go with +P ammo.
I never owned or particularly want to own a polymer gun, and I'm old fashioned enough that I don't even like aluminum guns.
Unlike many people I'm not fixated on maximum light weight guns, and I actually prefer the all stainless K9's solid feel.
Of the modern small autos, the Kahr's are Cadillac level firearms made of quality parts and workmanship.
Of the Kahr's the all steel versions have less reported problems then the polymer versions.
The only other CCW gun I will carry once in a while is a 1980's S&W Model 66 Combat Magnum with a 2 /2 inch barrel.
Early this year I stupidly allowed a favorite relative to talk me out of my limited production 80's S&W Model 66 with the rare 3 inch barrel.
I did occasionally carry it in the winter.
Since the 1960's I carried a good number of different brands and types of handguns, either because I was trying something different looking for a better defense gun, or because I was road testing a new holster design I'd developed.
Inevitably, there'd be some reason for me to reject a gun, either because it wasn't reliable, or I just didn't shoot it that well.
I've been carrying the K9 daily since 1997.
The K9 is the only one I can't find fault with, and that's why it's The One.
The quality was very high and no one ever managed to squeeze so many features in such a small package.
Like the 1911 it was the .380 that all others were judged by.
The design today is somewhat dated, but the Walther can still deliver the goods.
I owed two .380 PPK/s models and did carry them on occasion.
When I bought a Kahr Arms K9 I found the Kahr was as small as the PPK/s, had a much simpler design, better sights, better trigger, better grip, and was a full power 9mm.
I traded the stainless PPK/s off since the K9 was very effectively a better defense gun.
I experimented with a lot of carry guns years ago and finally settled on the Kahr Arms K9 stainless.
It's one of the VERY few handguns I ever owned that has never jammed or given any trouble.
To be fair, both of my .380 PPK/s guns also were 100% reliable even with reloaded lead bullet ammo.
Internally K9 is as smoothly finished as most older guns were outside.
The PPK/s stainless especially, had some razor sharp edges that I rounded off.
It just "fits" and feels like a miniature Browning Hi Power or CZ-75.
It's as simple as a handgun can get and is a "Pull, Point, and Shoot" gun with no manual safeties to be concerned with.
The outside is a clean design without the usual levers, safeties, and switches, and all edges and corners are rounded and smooth.
It has an extremely high "shootability".
It's as safe as a double action revolver. Unlike guns like the S&W M&P or Glock which have very short trigger pulls, the trigger is like a double action revolver and requires a long pull of the trigger to fire.
The long trigger pull makes it as safe to carry as a DA revolver, and while I don't, you could safely carry it without a holster.
Sights are excellent, and it's as small as most 1980's .380 pistols were.
Unlike many small autos, it was designed to be good to go with +P ammo.
I never owned or particularly want to own a polymer gun, and I'm old fashioned enough that I don't even like aluminum guns.
Unlike many people I'm not fixated on maximum light weight guns, and I actually prefer the all stainless K9's solid feel.
Of the modern small autos, the Kahr's are Cadillac level firearms made of quality parts and workmanship.
Of the Kahr's the all steel versions have less reported problems then the polymer versions.
The only other CCW gun I will carry once in a while is a 1980's S&W Model 66 Combat Magnum with a 2 /2 inch barrel.
Early this year I stupidly allowed a favorite relative to talk me out of my limited production 80's S&W Model 66 with the rare 3 inch barrel.
I did occasionally carry it in the winter.
Since the 1960's I carried a good number of different brands and types of handguns, either because I was trying something different looking for a better defense gun, or because I was road testing a new holster design I'd developed.
Inevitably, there'd be some reason for me to reject a gun, either because it wasn't reliable, or I just didn't shoot it that well.
I've been carrying the K9 daily since 1997.
The K9 is the only one I can't find fault with, and that's why it's The One.
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2,134 Posts
Still my old SAO 5" 1911 in .45, dressing around the gun as needed.
Why?
1. Platform familiarity--it's what I've known most of my adult life.
2. Where I live has a heavy infestation of pain-immune meth-heads that only respond to either CNS disruption or destruction of their physical support structure.
3. Prevailing "street wisdom" around here that carrying a 9mm is so common as to be nothing special but a dude with a .45 MEANS BUSINESS and is not to be Stepped To.
4. Biomechanically, the Government Model is still the best fit to the particular bone-structure and build of my arm and hand--with their over-raked grip angle I can't hit with a Glock for crap; too little rake like a Beretta 92 hurts my hand just to hold never mind fire.
Why?
1. Platform familiarity--it's what I've known most of my adult life.
2. Where I live has a heavy infestation of pain-immune meth-heads that only respond to either CNS disruption or destruction of their physical support structure.
3. Prevailing "street wisdom" around here that carrying a 9mm is so common as to be nothing special but a dude with a .45 MEANS BUSINESS and is not to be Stepped To.
4. Biomechanically, the Government Model is still the best fit to the particular bone-structure and build of my arm and hand--with their over-raked grip angle I can't hit with a Glock for crap; too little rake like a Beretta 92 hurts my hand just to hold never mind fire.
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1,257 Posts
It was in those conditions that I occasionally carried a Walther PPK/s, mostly because it was smaller than any other pistol I would trust.
That's also right where the Kahr pistols "fit". Again, I don't like polymer guns but the Kahr's a very light and small enough to hide easily in minimal clothing.
My daughter bought two Kahr's, one "full size" P9 and a small PM model.
She often wears shorts and tees, and she carries in one of those belt cases with a magnetic flap that are advertised often in the American Rifleman magazine.
You just don't notice it unless you're specifically looking for a gun and most guys are not looking at her to see if she's armed.
I freely admit that even when I really couldn't afford it I always bought the finest defense guns possible.
I'm talking Colt Combat Commanders, Colt Officer's ACP's, Colt Pythons, and S&W Model 66 Combat Magnums.
I always figured the better the quality, the more likely it was to work if needed, price be damned.
I never once regretted that and said "Gosh, if ONLY I'd bought the cheaper gun".
That's why I bought the Kahr K9 and that's why I still carry it daily.
That's also right where the Kahr pistols "fit". Again, I don't like polymer guns but the Kahr's a very light and small enough to hide easily in minimal clothing.
My daughter bought two Kahr's, one "full size" P9 and a small PM model.
She often wears shorts and tees, and she carries in one of those belt cases with a magnetic flap that are advertised often in the American Rifleman magazine.
You just don't notice it unless you're specifically looking for a gun and most guys are not looking at her to see if she's armed.
I freely admit that even when I really couldn't afford it I always bought the finest defense guns possible.
I'm talking Colt Combat Commanders, Colt Officer's ACP's, Colt Pythons, and S&W Model 66 Combat Magnums.
I always figured the better the quality, the more likely it was to work if needed, price be damned.
I never once regretted that and said "Gosh, if ONLY I'd bought the cheaper gun".
That's why I bought the Kahr K9 and that's why I still carry it daily.
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538 Posts
You make a strong case for the Kahr dfariswheel, and CaptainGyro struck a cord with the 1911 like P938, but I have to admit that I just feel more comfortable with a .45 ACP on my hip. Think I'll meander up to Shooters and test squeeze a Glock 30 SF. Don't have the largest hands, (wear a cadet small golf glove) and 10+1 .45 ACP in a subcompact sounds allot more comforting than 7+1 9 mm. Glock is still running the MIL/LEO Program, so the costs of the Glock: Kahr: SIG are all affordable. Not really a Glock fan, but the Old Model 19L (Now 17L) made it to LAPD SWAT and I've got to admit that the Model 21 SF NS finds it's way into my hands more often than not when things go bump in the night. (although the S&W 1911 E sits beside me in the Lazyboy) Just not to sure that the 30 SF is a small enough package. Might have to fondle the G36, 6+1 .45 ACP. But these may be comparing apples to oranges when it comes to the PPK?
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2,134 Posts
Right, different climate up here in Seattle, I'm 5-6 225 and it helps that the 5.11 shirts I favor seem to work well for me even in oppressive Indiana Summer hot-n-humid.
Plus all the other funny lumps and bumps and bulges, any "print" gets lost in the "background noise"...
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538 Posts
Sorry my in depth response to the SHOOTERS TRIP didn't make the airwaves.Right, different climate up here in Seattle, I'm 5-6 225 and it helps that the 5.11 shirts I favor seem to work well for me even in oppressive Indiana Summer hot-n-humid.
Plus all the other funny lumps and bumps and bulges, any "print" gets lost in the "background noise"...
Which is more important- the first ten shots or the ability to reload after you have missed with the first 10 shot's?
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2,134 Posts
"Fast is fine... Accurate is Final."--Wyatt Earp
Just noting, to elaborate on your point, that different climates, builds and wardrobes allow different degrees of latitude in hardware choice.
My FIRST choice would be an accurized Thompson under a trenchcoat, but I don't get to live in the 1940s...
Just noting, to elaborate on your point, that different climates, builds and wardrobes allow different degrees of latitude in hardware choice.
My FIRST choice would be an accurized Thompson under a trenchcoat, but I don't get to live in the 1940s...
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1,257 Posts
Kahr also makes a polymer 45 mini-gun that often gets good reviews.
What I most like about the Kahr's is the trigger.
Having "grown up" on Colt double action revolvers the transition to the DA-only Kahr was easy.
When Justin Moon was designing the Kahr K9 the American cop was still armed with a S&W DA revolver.
Moon wanted to offer them a full-power 9mm mini automatic that would be as small as most snubby revolvers, safe to carry as a revolver, and would have a trigger that felt like the S&W revolver trigger.
Unlike the Glock, S&W M&P and many other small autos there's no realistic chance of the Kahr firing by accident because of the longer trigger pull.
I like the secure feeling of a gun that needs no manual safety that needs to be deactivated to fire, and with no chance that a bump or snagged trigger can fire it.
I tell people to shoot the Kahr like it's a DA revolver.
The Glock and S&W were full sized Service guns that got the slide and grip trimmed to make them smaller.
The Kahr K9 and K40 started off smaller, then got further trimmed to become the micro gun models.
It all comes down to whatever "fits" you and that you can and WILL carry at all times.
A gun that doesn't really fit you is a hazard, and if it's too big and heavy, sooner or late it's going to get left at home while you "just run down to the store".
I've been told by a man that KNOWS that the worse feeling in the world is standing in a Stop 'N Rob and finding yourself in a bad situation, knowing that the gun you really REALLY NEED is at home on the dresser because it was too big and heavy and the holster took too much time and effort to put on.
On the other side of that coin is the guy who carries the tiniest gun available because it's comfortable, never mind if it'll do the job or if he can actually hit with it.
Jeff Cooper said a defense gun should be comforting, not comfortable.
As an example of stupid, I have a nephew by marriage who was a cop for a couple of years.
He actually carried a new unfired .25 auto on a key chain, so he could claim that he met the department regulation about always being armed.
Smartly, after a couple of years he moved over to the fire department.
When he sold the .25 it was still unfired and he'd never even cleaned the factory lube out of it.
What I most like about the Kahr's is the trigger.
Having "grown up" on Colt double action revolvers the transition to the DA-only Kahr was easy.
When Justin Moon was designing the Kahr K9 the American cop was still armed with a S&W DA revolver.
Moon wanted to offer them a full-power 9mm mini automatic that would be as small as most snubby revolvers, safe to carry as a revolver, and would have a trigger that felt like the S&W revolver trigger.
Unlike the Glock, S&W M&P and many other small autos there's no realistic chance of the Kahr firing by accident because of the longer trigger pull.
I like the secure feeling of a gun that needs no manual safety that needs to be deactivated to fire, and with no chance that a bump or snagged trigger can fire it.
I tell people to shoot the Kahr like it's a DA revolver.
The Glock and S&W were full sized Service guns that got the slide and grip trimmed to make them smaller.
The Kahr K9 and K40 started off smaller, then got further trimmed to become the micro gun models.
It all comes down to whatever "fits" you and that you can and WILL carry at all times.
A gun that doesn't really fit you is a hazard, and if it's too big and heavy, sooner or late it's going to get left at home while you "just run down to the store".
I've been told by a man that KNOWS that the worse feeling in the world is standing in a Stop 'N Rob and finding yourself in a bad situation, knowing that the gun you really REALLY NEED is at home on the dresser because it was too big and heavy and the holster took too much time and effort to put on.
On the other side of that coin is the guy who carries the tiniest gun available because it's comfortable, never mind if it'll do the job or if he can actually hit with it.
Jeff Cooper said a defense gun should be comforting, not comfortable.
As an example of stupid, I have a nephew by marriage who was a cop for a couple of years.
He actually carried a new unfired .25 auto on a key chain, so he could claim that he met the department regulation about always being armed.
Smartly, after a couple of years he moved over to the fire department.
When he sold the .25 it was still unfired and he'd never even cleaned the factory lube out of it.
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538 Posts
Thank You Sir, I wasn't allowed to elaborate. But if I wasn't able to cure what ill's us with the first ten rounds, the next ten rounds probably wouldn't change the outcome."Fast is fine... Accurate is Final."--Wyatt Earp
Just noting, to elaborate on your point, that different climates, builds and wardrobes allow different degrees of latitude in hardware choice.
My FIRST choice would be an accurized Thompson under a trenchcoat, but I don't get to live in the 1940s...
Joined
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538 Posts
But this is the first time that you tell me to do as you have not been willing to do, and yet you recommend that I put my life and those entrusting thier life in my hands in your hands and drink the Kahr's KOOLAID! Their is another that directs me to any Sig Product without regard to those that I must defend. I listen, but I depend on the feedback of my own hand to determine my course of action!
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