[csmkersh]

http://www.armedforcesjournal.com/bullets/

Dean, Charlie, Schmit--- ya'll heard of this? It's another type of frangible...

Originally mis-posted to "General Discussion"

 

[Charlie Petty]

There has been a lot of work on frangible bullets and "blended metal" is just another name for most of that. Powdered copper, iron, tungsten and other stuff is mixed with a binder and molded into a bullet shape.

I did some testing with an earlier 5.56 type into gelatin and it is spectacular but I'm not sure the technology is legal for combat use or ready for prime time.

 

[csmkersh]

I did some testing with an earlier 5.56 type into gelatin and it is spectacular but I'm not sure the technology is legal for combat use or ready for prime time.

The thing I learned over the years that whats legal is what ever the winner says it is. IIRC, Hitler issued a death warrant for all US MPs caught carrying .38s loaded with LDRN bullets. Then it's the use by all sides of flame throwers. If that isn't counter to the Accords, nothing is.

But back to the claim RBCD is making; they claim is that the round holds together in a cold medium like wall board or ballistic gel but in warm living tissue it fragments. As one friend in another group wondered, "Are we back to shooting goats?" I can see Darrel going into orbit over that thought - bless his soul.

 

[Charlie Petty]

Critical thinking would lead one to observe that the temperature of the medium can- in no way be relevant.

The greatest heat the bullet ever sees is going through the barrel with its' ass on fire and then the considerable heat of friction from the air flowing over it. Maybe if one fired it into liquid nitrogen the medium would cool it down, but the bullet is not in contact with any media- flesh or otherwise- long enough for meaningful temperature change.

Ask the guys from Gunstock who burned their fingers fishing bullets out of blocks of gelatin that just came from the frig how efficient that would be.

I learned long ago to never say never but I have a little trouble understanding how a bullet that can be frangible in flesh could penetrate a solid of any kind... glass, metal or fabric armor.

A few years ago I did quite a bit of work with the FN 5.7x28 mentioned in the story. It really would zip through a flak jacket and stop within 12" of gleatin but it is not frangible and has a conventional jacket and alumnium core.

 

[csmkersh]

Guess the smartest thing for me to do is file RBCD's claims in the same round file as I have Miltech's... :?

 

[Charlie Petty]

There is a lot of work underway with different frangible materials due to concerns over lead. There has been a lot of jello testing and some produce truly spectacular results and others act like ball ammo.

There is a delicate balance in making frangible bullets so that they really will break up on hard targets but are still tough enough to withstand cycling through a gun. I did some testing years ago with a 5.56 frangible that was pretty light. It functioned well in an M-16 but had virtually no recoil. you could put a 30 round burst into a couple of inches at 25 yd. Fun. The downside of that one turned out to be shelf life and the bullet deteriorated over time.

Everything in that story may be gospel, but there isn't enough information there to convince me... curmudgeon that I am.

 

[Guest]

it's the LIQUID in the live target that makes

the frangible's act differently. 30 years ago, I was amazed that a 50 gr Hornady "SX" sp would not exit a chuck, but it blew holes in 1 side of a 1000 gal steel tank, and held togeter enough as it traversed 5 ft of air, to make BIG dents, in the far side, very noticible on the outside of the tank. The metal thickness was about 3/16". This was from about 100m away, too.

I dont think much of bullets that are designed to break into dust at impact, but the ones that break into 3-4 relatively large chunks, if made out of solid copper, or tin, at Mach II velocities, (from pistols) those are impressive in their effects.

 

[Tim Burke]

Yes, we know about hydraulic forces acting on bullets.

If you are going to resurrect threads that have been dead for 4 months, you ought to at least understand them.
Yes, we know it's the liquid. The blended metal bullets were tested in 10% gelatin and were unimpressive. 10% gelatin works as a test medium because it is mostly water. The maker then claimed that the reason the bullet performed well in living tissue, but not in the gelatin, was due to the difference in temperature between the 2. Allegedly, a 60 degree Farenheit temperature difference in a similarly dense and liquid media is enough to change the bullet's behavior in under half a millisecond.
Where is Tom B. when you need him?

 

[Guest]

so YOU decide what'sa "dead issue"

around here, eh? NOBODY new EVER comes here, and maybe wants to learn something, right?

 

[Tim Burke]

Apparently not.