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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
They also have a "Zombie" version. They painted green and red highlights on it.

Honest.

I have handled a few of their .30-30's in my favorite gun store. The only thing I was impressed with was the price.

Shame. I like their 590 shotguns. Their standard lever guns seem to be of particularly low quality (again, this is just from a physical inspection).

This "tactical" version...well, it seems to me like a few guys from marketing were having tequila shooters at and one looked at the others and said, "Y'know what would be cool?"
 

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Give 'em a break Charlie. They could at least claim with a straight face that all that 870 training would transfer. I expect that not only sold a few guns but allowed chiefs in areas with .......politically progressive populations to give their troops something extra in the trunk.

I did see a couple in NRA Tactical Police matches, but they weren't in my squad and I've got no idea how they did.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
It sure didn't take off in police circles, though. I guess there just wasn't much of a demand for a "safe looking" patrol rifle. That and I think it takes a lot more training to effectively run a pump than it does a semi auto.
 

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I saw this on The Firearm Blog a while back. There should be a photo of the flash suppressor somewhere...
 

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Gentlemen, no less than Jeff Cooper was a fan of the 30-30 Win. for a defensive rifle. Those are a little off the wall but, the theory is sound.
Jeff Cooper would have vomited at the sight of these backbirths. The theory is sound but the execution is dopey. And silly. And sick and wrong.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Aww, guys! Nobody here on this forum would think twice about using an honest Winchester or Marlin .30-30 in either a medium game gun or for self protection.

Hell, the only lever gun I have is a Rossi copy of Winchester 92 in .45 Colt...and yeah, I admit it....it's got the John Wayne large lever loop, so I'm not entirely practical.

But what Mossberg did with the collapsible stock and picatinny rails was just absurd!
 

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Gentlemen, no less than Jeff Cooper was a fan of the 30-30 Win. for a defensive rifle. Those are a little off the wall but, the theory is sound.
First - That thing is an abomination in every way imaginable. The person who came up with that will sit in a lonely spot in Hell reserved just for those involved in the producing and marketing of that rifle.

Second - Jeff Cooper is patently WRONG on the use of a lever action rifle as a defensive rifle, UNLESS you can guarantee your opposition doesn't have semi-autos.
In force on force training, we actually played out this scenario. To make a long story short, we did 1 on 1 and the lever action guy lost most every time. We did 2 on 1 (two guys with lever rifles, one with semi-auto) and the single guy with semi-auto won 3 out of 5 times. We did 3 on 1 and the lever rifle guy won 3 out of 5 times. Here's how it played out most every time.
Semi-auto guy jumped up and pumped very rapid, well aimed shots at the lever rifle guy and suppressed him and forced him to run for cover. At which point he was either hit on the move, or the first time he poked his head out of cover.
Now in places where they don't allow semi-auto's, you bet; lever action is a great option. But then again, I've found that a pump action is considerably faster action than a lever. The only problem is, unless it's one of the really old Remington's (Model 14?), I don't know of any centerfire pump guns I'd trust as a defensive rifle. The later manufacture Remington's are really good (model 7600 IIRC) until the round count get high, then they start falling apart...on and they're far more accurate than you'd ever give them credit for. Always wanted a 7600 in .35 Whelan.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
First - That thing is an abomination in every way imaginable. The person who came up with that will sit in a lonely spot in Hell reserved just for those involved in the producing and marketing of that rifle.

Second - Jeff Cooper is patently WRONG on the use of a lever action rifle as a defensive rifle, UNLESS you can guarantee your opposition doesn't have semi-autos.
In force on force training, we actually played out this scenario. To make a long story short, we did 1 on 1 and the lever action guy lost most every time. We did 2 on 1 (two guys with lever rifles, one with semi-auto) and the single guy with semi-auto won 3 out of 5 times. We did 3 on 1 and the lever rifle guy won 3 out of 5 times. Here's how it played out most every time.
Semi-auto guy jumped up and pumped very rapid, well aimed shots at the lever rifle guy and suppressed him and forced him to run for cover. At which point he was either hit on the move, or the first time he poked his head out of cover.
Now in places where they don't allow semi-auto's, you bet; lever action is a great option. But then again, I've found that a pump action is considerably faster action than a lever. The only problem is, unless it's one of the really old Remington's (Model 14?), I don't know of any centerfire pump guns I'd trust as a defensive rifle. The later manufacture Remington's are really good (model 7600 IIRC) until the round count get high, then they start falling apart...on and they're far more accurate than you'd ever give them credit for. Always wanted a 7600 in .35 Whelan.
Kevin, I guess I think of rifle on rifle encounters as more combat scenarios than self protection scenarios. I kinda think of self protection as in the bump in the night at o dark thirty, one or maybe two intruders probably armed with handguns. In that type of aituation, I think the ol' .30-30 would do just fine.

Facing one or more opponents armed with semi autos? No doubt the advantage would go to The guys with the semi's.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
At the other extreme:
The Firearm Blog
'Western-Style' AR-10[/QUOTEo

Pete, I love Turnbull's ccolor case hardening, and that is some.pretty wood. But it just doesn't look right to me on an AR.

But then, except for my choice in wives, I ain't never been accused of having great taste.
 
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