[Skeptic49]

What is going on at Sturm Ruger?

I note Gander Mountain is selling 9mm P95s for $299.99 less $50.
auto, the .22 Magnum Semi-auto and the selections in the Revolvers and Autos are considerably more limited than they were a year ago.

Is Ruger experiencing a change in marketing or moving out of Guns?

Geoff
Who owns 5 Rugers and has for years.

 

[Charlie Petty]

Not at all... they are doing a time-honored business practice of dumping unsold inventory and discontinuing poor sellers.

Actually they put out a press release to that effect a couple of weeks ago.

 

[Skeptic49]

Press release was not posted to the web site.

I'm surprised the 10/22 magnum didn't sell well. I thought the .44 Magnum carbine would have an audience in the brush gun market.

Geoff
Who obviously isn't a Marketing Type.

 

[JR]

The .22 Magnum guns are being diluted by the .17HMR hoopla. As for the .44 Magnum, a weapon like that is going to take a while to gather market forces. It was advertised for a while, but then it faded into the line.

The P95 has always been a pretty good seller around here, and in Maryland. I'm guessing that the recent furor over the SA XD and the S&W M&P have slowed it's sales. People also have been snapping up the P345, warts and all.

 

[mikegunner]

Actually JR, this is the second iteration of the .44 Carbine. My very first rifle was a Ruger 44 carbine in the early 1980's but then Ruger pulled it from the market only to re-introduce it a couple of years ago.


It is not un-common for guns on liquidation to go VERY cheap. As a dealer I could tell you stories that have made me SICK. Nothing upsets a person like paying big dollars for a gun, and then having the mfg blow them out FAR below what you paid for it. Then customers come in and think you are a rip off artist when you are only trying to recover what you have in the gun.

Case in point was the Sphinx guns from Switzerland. (They were at SHOT this year and are re-introducing a new model pistol into the US market. About 5-6 years ago they had a model that was wholesaling in the $1000 range (YES WHOLESALE!). When they pulled out of the US market, those same guns were being sold by the distributors in the $3-400 range. If I tried to sell mine AT what I PAID for it, people would think I was a shiester and trying to screw them.

 

[JR]

Mike, I own an original Deerslayer from back in the 1970s. The new ones have a detachable magazine, versus the tube magazine of the originals.

I think that the market may have moved away from pistol-caliber semi-auto hunting rifles. Cowboy Action, and some lever-guns, are what appears to be moving in the pistol-caliber rifle today.

I'm keeping an eye out on the .44 Ruger carbine, as I wouldn't mind a more modern version to go with my older one.

 

[Snake45]

Sorry to see the .44 carbine go. The new one seemed to be an improvement over the original in several ways (such as sights), and I always thought it was about as close to Chairman Jeff's "Thumper" concept as we're likely to see.

I don't really "need" a .44 carbine, but still...maybe it's time to reassess my priorities....

 

[Steven Hobbs]

I think that the only change that they need to make is fire their maketing dept. and get some people that know how to advertise, I own three soon to be four of the P-series and when I mention them to people they look at me and wonder is that like and XD or a glock.

I ;ove their products but wonder about the management sometimes.

 

[HankB]

I figure Ruger management will pull their collective heads out of their nethermost orifices when they start selling 20 and 30 round Mini-14 mags through regular channels.

 

[JR]

Remington doesn't sell 20-30 round magazines for their semi-auto rifles, either. Does that mean that they have their heads up there, as well?

Marlin offered a high-capacity magazine for some of their .22 calibers models for a couple of years, but discontinued them well before 1994. Where's the comments dogging them?

Browning has never offered high-caps for their BLR or commercial BAR. Why aren't the same people up in arms for them?

 

[Snake45]

Remington, Marlin, and Browning didn't try to capitalize on military-type styling, operation, and caliber chambering in marketing their stuff. Ruger did. Imagine if Chevy had come out with the Camaro in 1967 to compete with the Mustang, and then would only put V8 engines in them for the cops. The car-buying public would not have been pleased.

Remington HAS taken heat for not making their hi-cap mags and folding stocks for 870 and 1100 generally available to the public. But the free aftermarket stepped up and has filled the needs.

 

[JR]

That that same free market hasn't produced high-cap mags for the Mini-14 is Ruger's problem?

By the way, unless I missed them, most, if not all, of Ruger's advertising of the Mini-14 in non-LEO magazines was with a five-round magazine, and never mentioned the high-caps.

So, it would be more like the Camaro being offered with only the small-block, while the police could get the 396 in 1967.

It's funny, but most LEO and military manufacturers of firearms have always offered various LEO and Military Only parts. Yet, only Ruger, who DIDN'T push their Mini-14 as a military rifle is the only company catching flack. Remember Glock's 33 round magazines? Or the Beretta 20 rounders for the 93R? Neither company has ever released either for civilian sale.

Military styling? OK, I guess that could be true, but it would apply to any number of civilian oriented weapons without high caps available. Military operation? You mean semi-auto? Military caliber? The .223 was touted as a great varmint, and small-game cartridge. It was available cheaply, and in great quantity. It was also available from the beginning in hunting loadings.

 

[Snake45]

The .223 was touted as a great varmint, and small-game cartridge. It was available cheaply, and in great quantity. It was also available from the beginning in hunting loadings.

Let's look back at the .223 cartridge and the guns that chambered it when the Mini-14 was introduced. I remember this very clearly, because I Was There.

This was mid-70s, and the .222 was still King. You could get the .222 in anything. The .223, on the other hand, was only available in:

1. AR-15.
2. AR-180.
3. A few Sako imports.
4. Remington 700 BDL Varmint only--not the common ADL or BDL.

All of these ran around $300 or more at a time when Rem 700 ADLs could be had on sale for $179.95 and BDLs for $199.95. I know because I worked at a sporting goods chain at the time and sold dozens and dozens of them. The .223 chambering of the cost-effective 788 would come later.

.223 commercial ammo was not thick upon the shelves at that time, because there was little call for it.

But there was a market for a cheap .223 rifle, because anywhere there was a military base or a Reserve or Guard unit, there was "liberated" .223 ammo--and, almost as importantly, its brass--to be had. And not much to shoot it in.

Ruger rode into this market with a gun that it was rumored would sell for $200 or under--and I think initial list price was $225 or $229, or something of the sort. By this time, the items listed above were all well over $300 MSRP.

The glitch here is that the first Minis were such hot items that they sold for well OVER list (this in the days when everyone was used to paying over list for Smith Magnums, Colt Pythons, and many other desirable things). The very first Minis I ever saw sold for MORE than the ARs of the day. It was a couple years before I saw them selling for substantially less than an AR, and well into the '80s before I saw one go for actual list price or less.

Also by this time, many more guns had been chambered for the .223.

And that's the way it happened.

 

[HankB]

Remington has justifiably taken a little heat for not selling some variations of their police sniper rifles through regular market channels. Ditto Colt and the "LEO-Only" variations of their AR15. Dakota got smoked over not making their sniper rifle available to civvies - enough so that they changed their policy. (This still wasn't enough to stave off bankruptcy and re-organization.)

Ruger used to sell their Mini-14s with 10 round mags, but now they come with 5s. So to use the car analogy, it would be like selling the Camaro with a small block to civilians and the 396 to cops . . . and then discontinuing the small block and substituting a V-6, while LEOs still had the 396. Of course, a car crank could get a 396 in the aftermarket and stuff in under the hood . . . but he'd have to pay. Big time.

Remember Glock's 33 round magazines? Or the Beretta 20 rounders for the 93R? Neither company has ever released either for civilian sale.

And yet both are readily available at prices just slightly higher than the standard mags - unlike Ruger hicaps, which, coming through "gray market" channels in limited quantities, carry highly inflated price tags.

(I laughed out loud at the comment about Browning not offering a high-cap for their BLR . . . a high cap detachable mag for a lever action! Really! :rotflmao: )

 

[JR]

(I laughed out loud at the comment about Browning not offering a high-cap for their BLR . . . a high cap detachable mag for a lever action! Really! ROTFLMAO )

Really? Well then, you should be hospitalized by the high caps now being offered in bolt-guns. Take a look around, you're humor is about ten years out of date. :shock:

Take a look at the 10 round conversions sold for the Steyr Forrester, or the various Marksman rifles. Or even the M14 mag conversions on the 700 receiver. Of course, taking a statement out of context is always fun, as you failed to mention that the original Browning weapon mentioned was the BAR (commercial), which uses the basic frame as does the BLR. Remington offers a M16 magazine accepting rifle in their Patrol Pump. Now, THAT'S funny. Right??? While you're laughing hysterically, successful manufacturers are rolling right along, SELLING what you think is funny. Now, I'm laughing at that.

The Ruger Mini-14 debuted in 1974. The Remington Model 760 Gamemaster chambered the .223 in 1964-1968. The Model 7 Lightweight chambered the .223 in 1984. The Model 78 Sportsman also began chambering the .223 in 1984. The Model 660 was also chambered in .223 between 1968-1971. The Model 788, as you mentioned, was chambered for .223 in 1975.The Model 700 BDL Varmint Special is also an older chambering for the .223, 1967-1994.

The Savage Model 110-D was also chambered in the .223 from 1966-1988.

The 110-E from 1970-1988.
The Model 110-V , which was discontinued in 1989 was available only in .223 or .22-250.
The Model 112 Varmint Rifle introduced the .223 chambering in 1976.

It would appear that there were a FEW more rifles chambering the .223 by 1975 than were alluded to. Note that the majority of them were identified as Varmint rifles as well. Now, unless there were Major losses of .223 ammo from ALL the military bases, somebody must have been producing quite a bit of .223 on the commercial side. I also lived, and worked, through the introduction of the Mini-14 rifle. Around Wash. D.C., Federal, Remington, and Winchester all three had multiple hunting loads for the .223 on the shelves.

Yes, TODAY, there are high cap pistol mags available that were banned by the companies selling the pistols. However, they are from OEM Suppliers, or used on the surplus market. Try buying a new in the wrap 33 round mag from Glock. I can buy used Glock LEO mags for $14-18 each by the dozen. That 33 rounder still costs more used, than new from Mec-Gar. They are also "gray market" magazines, by your own definition. :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[Snake45]

The Ruger Mini-14 debuted in 1974. The Remington Model 760 Gamemaster chambered the .223 in 1964-1968. The Model 7 Lightweight chambered the .223 in 1984. The Model 78 Sportsman also began chambering the .223 in 1984. The Model 660 was also chambered in .223 between 1968-1971. The Model 788, as you mentioned, was chambered for .223 in 1975.The Model 700 BDL Varmint Special is also an older chambering for the .223, 1967-1994.

The Mini-14 might have been announced in 1974, but I don't think I saw my first one --at a gun show--till about '76. Maybe late '75. And it had a premium price tag on it. (I laugh every time I see that the Smith M59 or M66 was introduced in 1970, or 1972. Yah, right.)

So the .223 had come and gone in the 760 and 660 by the time I came of age to buy rifles. Those escaped me. (They must have also been great sellers, huh.) 788 in .223 in '75 should have had my attention. I'll have to check up on that one. The Savage rifles weren't on my radar at all back then so I might well have missed those.

After swearing I wanted anything BUT an AR-15, I finally gave up and bought an SP-1 in 1985. Used but just barely, with the factory 3X scope--$475.

 

[armoredman]

I am now looking for reliable 20 round mags for my 580 series Mini-14. The cheapies I got from J&G failed, every one of them, but I have been told the Black Warrior from JohnMasen are the kick, for $14 each. I willsnag some of those, because I did pay $50 for one LE marked Ruger 20 round magazine for my Mini. Ouch.
If Ruger doesn't want to offer an item, fine, that's on them. The guy who made these business decisions is DEAD, so start a letter campaign to the company to get them to offer what the public wants to buy. Enough customer complaints directly to them, maybe they'll see the light, especially since the driving force behind the no non-LE higher cap mags is no longer among us.
I just wish more aftermarket mags worked right.

 

[HankB]

(I laughed out loud at the comment about Browning not offering a high-cap for their BLR . . . a high cap detachable mag for a lever action! Really! ROTFLMAO )

Really? Well then, you should be hospitalized by the high caps now being offered in bolt-guns. Take a look around, you're humor is about ten years out of date.

Actually, bolt guns have been around with high cap mags for a bit longer than 10 years . . . think British Enfields.

And I don't see what M14 conversions of M700s have to do with anything, since the entire conversion is an aftermarket custom job, with little relevance to Ruger's Mini-14 magazine sale policies.

And Remington's Patrol Pump is a rifle designed and intended specifically to get around local "assault weapon" bans in places like Kalifornia . . . not something those of us living in America need concern ourselves with, and having little relevance to Ruger sales policies in most of the nation.

The highcap Glock mag may indeed be "gray market" . . . but Glock is sure stuffing the "gray market" something fierce, to judge by the amount of new, reasonably priced Glock-brand 33 rounders I've seen being offered at gun shows. (Ruger isn't doing this.)