[GunGeek]

At a gun show this weekend sitting behind a table resting, while a friend took a nature break. Two guys next to our table got into a pretty interesting discussion. The kind of discussion that only gun nuts would find themselves in.

One guy was an old fart like me, and the other guy was probably in his late 30's to early 40's.

So the older guy was a 1911 kinda guy, and the younger guy liked H&K's. The older guy was looking a very nice L1A1 build on an IMBEL receiver. The whole thing was built up VERY nice, wood furniture and a very nice SUIT(TriLux) scope; very cool cold war era rifle.

His bud was telling him that he could get a Colt AR with a Trijicon for that price. Older guy says, "That's cool, but it's not what I want."

Younger guy says, "If the SHTF, which would you rather have in your hand".
Older guy; "The AR of course, but if the SHTF, the L1A1 will get the job done"
Younger; "You'd willingly pick the lesser rifle"
Older; "Yes...Look, what are the chances I'll need a rifle for a SHTF? About 10x lower than being struck by lightning, so why not have the rifle you love, rather than buying the perfect rifle for an event that is extremely unlikely to happen"

So the other guy went into the predictable rant about "having the best" and why have something less than the best.

So anyhow, got me thinking about how anal gun people can be. There was another guy there who told the H&K guy, "I only own WWI era guns, mostly British. And if the S ever did HTF, that's what I'll call on to get the job done."

The H&K guy was incredulous.

I just found the whole exchange VERY entertaining. The reaction from the H&K guy was not an uncommon reaction. Go over to ARFCOM and watch those people debate the most minute details with a rabid intensity. Guys who think their choice of this 124 grain JHP vs. that 124 grain JHP is a "huge difference" and make the differences sound as vast as a .25 ACP vs a .357 magnum.

So, how do you feel about being armed with one of the "classics" in a SHTF scenario? Or do you only buy the latest & greatest?

 

[csmkersh]

Some of us old farts know a .25ACP will kill someone just as dead as a .357 as it's shot placement in the end.

 

[TommyGunn]

Well, I have two "Mforgeries," a Bushmaster and a Colt. Either would be fine. I have a old Sig 556 (I think this has been discontinued) which would suffice, and a WASR 10 which would suffice. Also, an M1A which would be ....super sufficing....and an M-1 Carbine.
All would be OK. How would I choose? Fate? What was closer at hand?
With all the permutations of how a SHTF situation would start....how would I guess? Even a handgun might be OK for some things, depending on where you are.
It's probably best to take a good choice and stock up on ammo, then concentrate on foodstuffs and other things that one might need. Heck, I've told people that only had an SKS that it was a perfectly good weapon for most *stuff* and to concentrate on food, sanitation, shelter, and other necessities.

 

[spwenger]

Two Thoughts

1. I'd rather have the gun on which my reflexes are honed.
2. Depending on your definition of "SHTF," the gun that you may be forced to use could easily disappear into an evidence locker. Would I rather lose custody of a highly tuned 1911 or Browning HP or of a much easier to replace Glock 17? For that matter, I could probably purchase at least two G17's for the cost of the highly tuned (or otherwise valuable) classic and keep one in the safe as a backup.

 

[GunGeek]

1. I'd rather have the gun on which my reflexes are honed.
2. Depending on your definition of "SHTF," the gun that you may be forced to use could easily disappear into an evidence locker. Would I rather lose custody of a highly tuned 1911 or Browning HP or of a much easier to replace Glock 17? For that matter, I could probably purchase at least two G17's for the cost of the highly tuned (or otherwise valuable) classic and keep one in the safe as a backup.

And there are some who buy guns based on such principles, nothing wrong with that, if that's how your mind works and that's what makes you happy.

I tend to lean towards the mindset of the old guy. Buy what you like and enjoy shooting the guns that inspire you. It doesn't matter what those are. Just enjoy your shooting hobby, and don't lose sleep over the "SHTF" scenarios, because they're just highly unlikely to happen.

Ultimately, you have to do what works for you. There are those who approach firearms purely as a defensive tool. If that's your mindset, then do what makes sense to you.

There are those who are serious collectors...the kind that would only buy a classic, and that classic has to come with the original box or they're not interested. If that's your thing, then fine.

What annoys me is when you find guys like the younger guy who insist it has to be THEIR way...only THEIR logic is sound. Some people just take life way too seriously...they're not very fun to be around.

 

[csmkersh]

I tend to lean towards the mindset of the old guy. Buy what you like and enjoy shooting the guns that inspire you. It doesn't matter what those are. Just enjoy your shooting hobby, and don't lose sleep over the "SHTF" scenarios, because they're just highly unlikely to happen.

Amen!

I love SAAs and have carried a couple when I thought the dance might get noisy. I've carried 1911s Mexican Style as back then a good holster might be a weeks pay. Even today I'll stick my stainless .357 in my waist band sans holster.

As to SHTF scenarios, I've a bug out bag with knives, compass, various fire starting tools from flint and steel to my favorite, a Blast match. But at my age I don't keep it in the car/truck and if it does hit the fan I'll hold in place.

 

[Snake45]

I was taking stock some time ago and realized that almost all my guns were in production when I graduated from high school in 1972. In fact, a great many of them--maybe half--were actually made before 1972.

And you know what? That's the way I like it. If you gave me a gift certificate for any handgun in the current S&W catalog, for example, I'm not sure I'd find anything in there I'd want to own.

 

[stand watie]

Make mine M1Garand & my full Mills ammo belt.

yours, sw

 

[CaptainGyro]

I love my AR's. I love my grandpa's 1903. I love my Garand and it's younger son, the M-14. My M1 Carbine is an absolute hoot. My '73 Winchester is a total winner. I'm sure a FAL or an AK would serve me well, as they have so many others.

But...if the S ever hits the F, I'm not going on offense. I'm not charging bunkers, or clearing trenches, or sniping. I'm playing defense, trying to evade, stay alive, and protect what's mine. And I'm carrying a 12 gauge, with a variety of ammo for every occasion: bird shot to buck to slugs. I'll probably have a modern fighting pistol like an H&K, but my long gun will be a smoothbore.

 

[TommyGunn]

I love my AR's. I love my grandpa's 1903. I love my Garand and it's younger son, the M-14. My M1 Carbine is an absolute hoot. My '73 Winchester is a total winner. I'm sure a FAL or an AK would serve me well, as they have so many others.

But...if the S ever hits the F, I'm not going on offense. I'm not charging bunkers, or clearing trenches, or sniping. I'm playing defense, trying to evade, stay alive, and protect what's mine. And I'm carrying a 12 gauge, with a variety of ammo for every occasion: bird shot to buck to slugs. I'll probably have a modern fighting pistol like an H&K, but my long gun will be a smoothbore.

+1 --- You and me both. I see little point in going on offense. Better to be low profile and what is called "grey man."
Offense works when you're SEAL Team 6. As an individual, sooner or later (probably sooner) you're going to run out of luck. Just my 2¢.

 

[GunGeek]

For those who's plan IS their weapons, hope they meet with a quick death. Even if the S hit's TF, murder and pillaging is never okay.

 

[TommyGunn]

For those who's plan IS their weapons, hope they meet with a quick death. Even if the S hit's TF, murder and pillaging is never okay.

+1 Amen to that!

 

[stand watie]

GunGeek,

Pardon me for pointing out that I'd rather be on defense from a series of covered & concealed firing positions, with my M1 Garand and/or shotgun/handgun than be on offense in most any home/farm scenario.

Also, I would prefer to drive the attackers away with well-aimed SA rifle fire from > 250M than have to fight them off with a handgun or shotgun at <50M. = Even at the age of nearly 70YO, I still shoot a Garand acceptably well.

yours, sw.

 

[Diamondback]

The weapon fitting its operator is the most important thing, all else comes after that.

If you recommend an S&W 629 with a 3" barrel to an arthritic old lady and I hear it, I'm gonna point and laugh... and then do whatever I can to see you blackballed as the Gross Incompetent you obviously are. Hell, you recommend that to ME and I'm gonna get my Mr. T on about "WTF you smokin', FOO?!"

 

[Snake45]

The weapon fitting its operator is the most important thing, all else comes after that.

Disagree. Reliability is #1, and everything else comes after that. But your "fit" is very, very high on my list too. It might even be #2.

 

[Diamondback]

Reliability's like power: doesn't matter if it's a One Shot Stop Every Time if the weapon and your body can't be adapted to work together. (I *guarantee* an M256 120mm will be a one-shot killer if you're downrange, but I also guarantee even the frickin' Incredible Hulk couldn't rise to the challenge of shoulder-firing an Abrams tank mainbore. )

Maybe they're in a tie, or one slightly edging out the other. (Glocks I can't hit crap with but I can at least make 'em go bang... Beretta 92 family, on the other hand, just HOLDING is painful for me never mind firing. Obviously if I can't have a 1911, even a flat-MSH, if it's Show Time and I have to choose between Glock or Beretta I'll unhappily take the Glock and either hope I can get to Smell Yesterday's Burrito Lunch Range, or dial in an even lower correction than my usual Offset Aimpoint...)

 

[t-star]

the whole point of seal team is TEAM- when one has to depend on oneself, better to make a barricaded defended position and let TROUBLE COME TO YOU rather than go looking- I just recently saw a Chinese made film in which a Japanese patrol was looking for Chinese soldiers- well, this little bugger had laid out GRENADES in strategic positions and when he japs( yea, I know) got close, he'd shoot the grenade and get a good 3 or 4 with one shot- well they finally hunted him down against a wall, shot him dead and he fell off the roof- but he was wired to more grenades so the whole building went up- now THAT'S thinking

 

[stand watie]

t-star,

AGREED 100%. = Remind me sometime to tell you about my late friend, 2LT Joe Berry, of Merrill's Marauders & some of the "stunts" (that he related to me during his final illness) that they used to KILL many HUNDREDS of "sons of Nippon", including an EXPLODING PRIVY that they used to "take out" a BG of the Japanese Kempeiti.

yours, sw

 

[Diamondback]

t-star,

AGREED 100%. = Remind me sometime to tell you about my late friend, 2LT Joe Berry, of Merrill's Marauders & some of the "stunts" (that he related to me during his final illness) that they used to KILL many HUNDREDS of "sons of Nippon", including an EXPLODING PRIVY that they used to "take out" a BG of the Japanese Kempeiti.

That musta been a downright crappy way to go... mg:

*dodges flying fruit*

Sorry, just couldn't help myself...

 

[t-star]

That musta been a downright crappy way to go... mg:

*dodges flying fruit*

Sorry, just couldn't help myself...

what you never pulled the grenade in the chitter routine - I thought EVERYBODY in theatre did that one- typically it was an azzhole officer or suppy sargent or something not a frag grenade mind you but something like goofy grape - somebody we wanted "promoted" to rear echelon