[Kevin Gibson]

During this ammo crunch, I’m recognizing that my love of “diversity” in handguns is mostly paying off. But I also recognize that there are a few cartridges that can still be found on shelves that I don’t have in my collection.

.40 S&W never made much sense to me personally. Yeah, it’s a very good round and a solid, proven performer. It’s just when you put it in a 9mm sized pistol, it tends to recoil more than a .45 ACP…If that’s the case, I’d rather just have the .45 ACP. But now .45 ACP is rather scarce, and .40 S&W is somewhat readily available.

Same for the .357 Sig. With ballistics very close to the .38 Super, I tend to just opt for the .38 Super in a 1911 platform. Plus I don’t see a whole lot of “real world” difference in performance of the .357 Sig/.38 Super over the 9mm other than barrier penetration; which is not something I much worry about. BUT, 9mm & .38 Super might as well be Waldo…as in, “Where’s Waldo” because both are very hard to find. And while I don’t personally see that the .357 Sig really offers anything unique, it’s still a very competent, capable round.

I think over the next year I need to pick up a .40 slide for either my full size or Commander sized 1911’s, and add .40 & .357 Sig barrels…and pick up a few magazines.

 

[stand watie]

KevinGibson,

As you are in AR, do what I've done and make friends with a night clerk at Walmart. = Most, if not all, Walmart's get ammo deliveries after 10PM & I've had NO trouble getting ammo for my Sig-Sauer P6/P225, though I have had to go there after 12AM.

yours, sw

 

[Snake45]

I think over the next year I need to pick up a .40 slide for either my full size or Commander sized 1911's, and add .40 & .357 Sig barrels…and pick up a few magazines.

Don't forget to score a .40-sized ejector for it, too.

 

[SpecialEd]

KevinGibson,

As you are in AR, do what I've done and make friends with a night clerk at Walmart. = Most, if not all, Walmart's get ammo deliveries after 10PM & I've had NO trouble getting ammo for my Sig-Sauer P6/P225, though I have had to go there after 12AM.

yours, sw

I notice you tend to post later too, you must be a night owl?

 

[Charlie Petty]

Kevin I have no use at all for the 357 SIG. Recoil is worse than the 40, ammo costs a bunch more, and it is difficult to reload due to the very short neck.

I was in a low light class and one guy on the end had a sig... when he fired the first round it was like sunrise...

I agree that recoil is greater than the 9 but I became a big fan during my last years as a cop and in a full size 1911 it has less recoil. I've got several 40s my Kimber if a fun gun and it's easy to reload.

 

[WaltGraham]

when he fired the first round it was like sunrise...

That nearly wasted good whisky...

 

[Charlie Petty]

I thought Tequila Sunrise was an Eagles song...


seriously though everyone else stopped shooting to see what had blown up...

 

[stand watie]

SpecialEd,

YEP. = When I was "on the job" I often worked straight mids. = That's when the "fun & games" for CID SSA generally is.
Since I've retired and am trying to write a novel and a non-fiction book (the history of the 4th MO Partisan Rangers, MO State Troops, PACSA), I find that I do my best writing after "the house goes to sleep".

yours, sw

 

[shep854]

"...when he fired the first round it was like sunrise..."
Yeah, I'd like to have seen that also. The biggest fireball I've seen was the 'Treasury Load'--.38 110gr +P+ -- from a short SP101.

 

[CaptainGyro]

Even before being issued a duty weapon in .40 S&W I was a big fan of the cartridge. To me it offers a "best of both worlds" compromise between the 9 and the .45. Both of those rounds are over a century old, and are constrained by the metallurgy and chemistry limits of the nineteenth century. The .40 is a modern development which takes advantage of our advanced manufacturing capabilities to offer nearly the power of the larger round and nearly the capacity of the European standard.

The fact that the .40 is nearly contemporaneous with the modern polymer-framed, striker-fired pistol means that they have grown up together, and IMHO, go together like scotch and cigars.

The .40 really comes into its own at the reloading bench. As Charlie has pointed out, it's easy to reload, and when charged to the middle of its range, becomes quite manageable, if not entirely pleasant, to shoot; I find it more enjoyable than the 9.

Also, I've shot it in the dark, and you don't need a flash suppressor.

 

[Charlie Petty]

You were really doing well until you got to cigars...

Actually the first Winchester ammo was pretty bright because it was too fast burning and then they put in a flash suppressant that left a yellow residue (bee pollen) in the gun.

It didn't take long for the ammo to get better, but for the first six months or so Winchester was the only maker. When Federal got involved it improved very quickly.

The last I heard about 75% of LE pistol orders are for 40s now.

 

[IrishCop]

We switched from the Glock 31 to the Glock 22 about three years ago, mainly because of the ammo cost. It's almost moot now, as the prices on ALL ammo have gone up. Timing IS everything, I guess...

Most of the local agencies use .40 S&W. Decatur City carries 9mm Beretta's with the +P+ load. Our Sheriff lets us carry what we can qualify with but most guys stick with the issue weapons. I carry my Kimber and the Lt in charge of our narcotics section likes Decatur's load but carries a Glock 17.

The .357 SIGS did light up the sky during night firing! mg:

 

[Kevin Gibson]

Yeah if not for the availability, I would have absolutely NO use for the .357 Sig for precisely the reasons that Charlie lists. If I want true .357 Magnum power (and typically I don’t) out of a semi-auto, I’ll take the 9x23 Win all day long; it’s a much better cartridge in pretty much every way but one…Since I’ve NEVER seen a box of 9x23 on a gun store shelf, the .357 Sig kinda wins out. And the same goes for the .357 Sig over 9mm and .45 ACP. Right now if you want defensive handgun ammunition in my town, it better be a .38 Special, .45 Colt, .40 S&W or .357 Sig; that’s about it. The .357 Sig is the last in the line of preference, but it would be nice to know I have the option should I need it.

I have shot both the .40 S&W and 10mm Lite (FBI load) in the 1911 and I’ve found both to be quite nice. I still prefer the .45 ACP over the .40 mostly due to cost, but the .40 is a very good performing cartridge.

 

[riflerev]

I also have no use for the .357 Sig. I agree with Charlie that it is a pain to reload also. I have a .357 Sig barrel for a Glock 22 just so I have an alternative if the need arises.

We have a fellow down here at the club who shoots a Glock 34 with a .357 Sig replacement barrel in it for USPSA and Steel Challenge matches. Nobody wants to act as the Range Officer when it is time for this fellow to shoot. This gun and load is at least as load as any .38 super race gun with compensator and popel holes in the slide. Several of us think that it is in fact louder. The fellow in question is of small stature and we believe he suffers from a Napoleon complex.

Oh yeah, there is perceptible muzzle flash even at high noon.

 

[Charlie Petty]

In the interest of complete disclosure I have a SIG barrel for an M&P... I've had it for years and it remains unfired.

I also have a copy of a letter I got from a SIG executive because I wrote that the SIG cartridge does NOT equal the 357 Magnum revolver. I sent along a ballistic table that showed the two were equal at 100 yards!

Kevin if you can get 38 Spec. and 40 S&W you're probably ahead of most of the country. Besides I bet you know how to shoot and would be just fine with a 22

 

[shep854]

Surprisingly, I've seen .45ACP & Colt, .40 S&W and .44mag. 9mm & (surprisingly) .38 rare. .357? Don't bother asking.

 

[IrishCop]

Surprisingly, I've seen .45ACP & Colt, .40 S&W and .44mag. 9mm & (surprisingly) .38 rare. .357? Don't bother asking.

Here .40 and 9mm is sold as soon as it comes in. .22's are still hard to find, and .45 Colt? Next to impossible, along with .380's. .45ACP? Hit and miss.

There is one gun and pawn in Decatur that has a good stockpile of a little bit of everything...but that's because the prices are outrageous. A buck a round for 500 rounds of 5.56 in a G.I. ammo can.

 

[William R. Moore]

I was on the range for a multi agency night fire right after the the Virginia State Police adopted the .357 Sig. I believe the cartidge was developed because Sig want something with their name on it.

However, at least during that first experience, it became obvious that considerable sums could be saved by using the cartridge. This was because one round took the place of a very expensive distraction device (flash bang). Not only did the trooper stun everyone on the range, he also illuminated it. Several of us were bright (no pun intended) enough, after the first stunning experience, to wait for him to fire to illuminate our targets.

Upon learning that the Air Marshalls had supposedly adopted the cartridge, I quit flying. While it's doubtful I'd ever have the experience, I don't want to be in an aircraft where someone is going to shoot one of those things. I need the hearing I've got left and don't need flash burns to go with the deafness.

I do agree that if you've got something already chambered in .40 S&W and can get a .357 Sig barrel at the right price, It's probably worth the investment.

 

[stand watie]

William R Moore,

LOL.

yours, sw

 

[Charlie Petty]

I believe the cartidge was developed because Sig want something with their name on it.

You're absolutely right. I came up with a wildcat that was a .45 necked down to 40 and pitched it to them and got the NIH cold shoulder. It was renamed the 10mm Centaur. Quite a few years before Cor-Bon did something similar and called it the 400 Cor-Bon.

It was pretty fast too but since I couldn't pressure test it I quit right before I got to the speed of light...