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Anyone want to bet that the agent will say that the gun went off by itself... Glock will blame the ammo... and nobody will wonder if someone might not have pulled the trigger.
 

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"Witnesses told police that the agent kept his gun pointed toward the floor and when he released the slide, the weapon fired one shot into the top of his thigh."

From this we can only deduce that the bullet did not travel down the barrel, or surely it would have hit the floor, where the muzzle was certainly pointed.
:pigsfly:
 

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I'd already started this off-line before I got here and see that the threat was already underway…
DEA Agent Shoots Self During Gun Safety Class

A federal drug agent shot himself in the leg during a gun safety presentation to children and his bosses are investigating.

The Drug Enforcement Administration agent, whose name was not released, was giving a gun safety presentation to about 50 adults and students organized by the Orlando Minority Youth Golf Association, witnesses and police said.

He drew his .40-caliber duty weapon and removed the magazine, according to the police report. Then he pulled back the slide and asked someone in the audience to look inside the gun and confirm it wasn't loaded…
Well, if I'd've left off the last sentence, it would be easy to have figured out what happened, but now one really has to wonder!

It appears that the agent thought that he was "cold," but unless there was a mechanical malfunction of truly epic proportions, he had to have allowed the slide to slip forward from his grasp without visually inspecting the condition of the pistol, and while his finger was on the trigger.

The rest o'the story about which no less, and no more, a personage than Jeffrey Snyder commented: "Oh, the competence! Oh, the blinding intelligence! You can't make this (common Anglo-Saxonism for fecal material) up.".

Any and all speculation and/or scathing comment welcomed….
 

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Personally, I wouldn't trust Jesus Christ Himself to inspect my chamber for me. As far as I'm concerned, my chamber is empty ONLY when MY eyeballs have confirmed it.

RULE #1!!! (Oh boy, here comes "the controversy"!) :wink:
 

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RAJ said:
Personally, I wouldn't trust Jesus Christ Himself to inspect my chamber for me. As far as I'm concerned, my chamber is empty ONLY when MY eyeballs have confirmed it.
Not enough… I'll allow "my eyeballs" to confirm Condition One, but not Condition Four or Five… there's a little something something which many of us of the penis-encumbered persuasion may recall engaging in on a porch or in a backseat somewhere in our earlier years with someone of the non-P-EP, and that's always the best procedure for this aging pistolero!

No, it's nothing to do with recapturing the sins and pleasures of a mis-spent youth, but avoiding what the French call trompe l'oeil in a possibly lethal circumstance.

Somewhere in my early adolescence, a science teacher expounded on a particular quirk which I'd already experienced several times… looking for something right beneath our noses and not being able to "see" it. He explained that if one does a quick "scan" and don't happen to spot the object one seeks, the mind is told that it's not there, and the likelihood is that you're not gonna see that sucker until someone else either picks it up and hands it to you (with attendant derisive patter, naturally) or otherwise forces your attention on that spot.

"If that ever happens to you," he said, "stop your visual activity, close your eyes, even, and start feeling for it."

O, yeah, sez I… I don't think so! But what the Hey! And it's been my standard modus ever since, 'cause not only has it worked from time-to-time, but like the ol' Borscht belt gag about giving the dead guy some chicken soup as a remedial act, "it couldn't hoit!"¹

Someone somewhere yesterday observed that the primary cause of NDs is "distraction." Hey! I, who not all that many years ago put a 9 X 19mm round through my prize PACT Professional Chronograph², second that in spades!

So, if I need to confirm that a firearm is cold, I not only do it visually, but digitally as well… this DEA goof sure as spit didn't use his finger, but either relied on his audience to provide the visual assurance or just made a cursory visual check and, his mind having told him for whatever reason that he was carrying Condition Three, never saw the damned round under the extractor.

And, sad for him (and all of us, ultimately), no one in his audience knew what they were looking at, or else the gun-handler was on "auto-pilot" and dropped the slide before anyone could shout out a warning.

Here endeth the Saturday Sermon on Safety… no one has to heed it, but that's my procedure, and I haven't experienced any NDs in a while!

¹.- I'll let Stern start a thread somewhere else and explain that to those whose cultural experiences require that sort of enrichment. Additionally, some of us of the P-EP may recognize that one of our first recourses in looking for something is to mindlessly bellow "Where's my … ?" to whatever female… mate, mother, etc.… is within earshot, and as the then-Roseanne Barr once fired back to John Goodman, "Where does it say that the uterus is a tracking device?!?"

².- And no!, it was not because it was giving me nice consistent readings of 1337 fps for my 835 fps calibration M1911 Ball Match, and I don't care what Ronin Colman says!
 

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That's exactly right Dean! I remember one of my teachers telling me about test taking. "Read it carefully the first time! If you read it wrong the first time you will probably keep reading it wrong..."

How come the cartridge wasn't extracted when Skippy the DEA retracted the slide?

Ed
 

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I had just gone up to put some boots on, had CNN on the TV, and they were interviewing a woman who was there when the guy shot himself in the thigh. YOU GUYS ARE really GOOD. Could I dare say...FASTER THAN A SPEEDING BULLET?? kit
 
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OK, this hit the local TV News Thursday evening. As I watched it I thought... "Ya right!" (i.e. removed the mag, cleared the weapon, gun fired) and started counting the possible Rules violations (#1 Violated, #2 Violated, #3 Violated (unless he had a thing against his thigh... possable Workman's Comp Claim?!?), #4 Violated (possibly... see #3)

Now, like any good TV Reporter the Lady giving the story did her research, she headed to the #1 source of information in Orlando on all things that go bang... Shoot Straight (where she filmed her report with our range as a back drop) & Mr. Larry Anderson (Store Manager).

While I wasn't there for this one I was told yesterday (my Monday) that Larry gave the reporter a 20 minute lecture on the inprobability of this being an Accidental discharge... showing the lovely lady (and camera man) how many things would have to malfunction on the arm itself for it to (if we go under the assumption that the agent did in fact remove the mag like he said) #1 Not extract a chambered round, #2 slam-fire (stricker block stuck disengaged, stricker sear slipped when slide closed, etc).

All in all the point was made that this was Negligent discharge on the part of the Agent and the possible correct turn of events reviewed (Mag was never removed when he cleared the chamber or if mag was removed and the extractor failed to extract the Agent didn't catch that #1 and #2 then pulled the trigger (for whatever reason).

Now, having been there for other Firearm Reports I know what information is usually passed/given to the Reporters (no BS Fat Frank Info... only logical, knowledgable, factual information). Unfortunitly what makes it passed edit is just the best sound bites... which never tell the entire story. :roll:

But, we do our best to educate our local news media. 8)
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Good thing to see theres still a few non-retarded folks in
the media.... at least some of them still want to get the whole
story.

WRT chamber verification.... Dean, how in the heck did you
manage put a 9 x 19 into the chronograph? :)

Brings me to another question.... not that I'd ever want to
test this, but how many modern semiauto pistols would "slam-fire" if the trigger was depressed (and held down), and then the slide get pulled back, loading a live round into the chamber and then... ?) I imagine in some models there would be mechanical devices of sort that would inhibit this, and others would allow the ND to occur? Or would the ND be "probable" in most semiautos using the situation I described.... ?

-Mike
 

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Mike said:
Dean, how in the heck did you manage put a 9 x 19 into the chronograph?

… but how many modern semiauto pistols would "slam-fire" if the trigger was depressed (and held down), and then the slide get pulled back, loading a live round into the chamber and then... ?
  1. As Mike Hammer told Charlotte Manning with the celebrated final line of I, the Jury, "It was easy." It was a combination of inattention and nerve damage (loss of feeling) in my first and second fingers of my weak hand… the pistol was in Condition Zero whem I transferred it from my shooting hand, and one of these lukewarm dead fingers found its way into the trigger guard while I had my head wedged up my fundemental orifice.
    [/*:m:33ilcxle]
  2. CeePee can check me on this, but precisely this sort of procedure was taught to me as "a hard hold" by a builder of Bullseye Competition Models 1911 as a way of preserving one's trigger job… dont know about other trigger systems, but it shouldn't create a discharge in most of them.[/*:m:33ilcxle]
 

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Dean, I'm glad you reminded me of the "digital check" method. I used to use that, too, and will revert back to doing so now.

Some gun owners get upset when you stick your finger into their well-cared for and lubed guns, but what the hey; a quick wipe-down with a silicone rag and everything's right with the world, plus everyone present is ASSURED that the gun is indeed empty. Of course, there's always the possibility that there's a smaller caliber cartridge stuck down the barrel a ways, but that's another matter altogether.

The same phenomena applies to driving, BTW. "Highway hypnosis" is common on US interstates, and it invovles exactly the same mental process. You get used to seeing what you want to see, empty highway, until suddenly you find yourself doing 75 mph 15 feet from the rear of a semi doing an uphill climb at a speed of 50 mph. CRUNCH!
One of the reasons that the Autobahn is superior to the US Interstate system is because they built in curves every quarter mile or so. Long straight stretches dull the mind, but when you're constantly having to turn every 400 meters or so, the mind stays sharper.
 

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Dean is right. It was common practice to teach bullseye shooters to hold the trigger back when loading. Where possible I prefer to hold the hammer but with the new hammers and beavertails that may not be possible.

Can anyone define "slam fire?" Because if they could it would be obvious that this is not what happened to the DEA idiot.
 

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Charlie Petty said:
Dean is right. It was common practice to teach bullseye shooters to hold the trigger back when loading. Where possible I prefer to hold the hammer but with the new hammers and beavertails that may not be possible.
Yes, I learned to do that, too, and I never trusted it, for two reasons.

1. People who teach you to do that tell you, "Let the disconnector hold the hammer (or sear) back as it's designed to do [1911]." Such people obviously don't understand how the 1911 disconnector works. It doesn't hold anything back (as it does on, say, an AR-15), never has, never will. The part is mis-named. It is actually a connector. Why this technique does work (usually) on a 1911 is that it takes "trigger bounce" (which IMHO is also mis-named) out of the equation.

2. Sooner or later you are going to have an "Aw sh!t!" moment when you realize that you forgot to hold the trigger back this time. You are going to have this moment immediately after you release the slide, and you are going to then pull the trigger to try to make up for your omission, and guess what--your finger will finish in second place, which will be announced by a loud booming noise.

Charlie's right about holding the hammer being preferable. Even better is having good enough sear/hammer engagement that it's not an issue--and STILL keep the muzzle pointed safely when dropping the slide.

Sorry to come late to this party, but looks like it just got resurrected after a long sleep. I wasn't here for the first go-round.
 

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Sorry but I am confused, what is the purpose of holding the trigger or the hammer while reloading a 1911? I was looking at another forum and saw someone say to push on hte hammer and pull the trigger a couple of times and it would stop trigger creep but I dont understand why that would work either.
 

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I have to agree with Richard Jefferies post on this one . I and only I am responsible for clearing and insuring the safety my weapon .

That said After watching this video of this "agent" leads me to the conclusion that not only should he be fired but whomever was responsible for letting him pass his firearm training class should at the very least chewed a new a** ..

Let me say that I am not a Glock fan to begin with . Even so this is not the fault of the firearm , ammo , God , Satan or the air in the room ! FULL responsibility lies with this agent and his lack of knowledge , arrogance and simple stupidity .

Simply my humble option
Travis
 

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I had my head wedged up my fundemental orifice.
To paraphrase from a very old and very bad Sherlock Holmes joke, I MUST correct you and show the proper rendering:

I had my head wedged up my alimentary orifice.
 
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