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Discussion Starter #1
I really can’t count how many times I’ve been to Dallas, but last week was the first time I visited Dealey Plaza. It’s not nearly as “big” as it appears on TV and in photos; it’s a rather small little area. Looking at the view from the sniper’s nest, and from the street, it’s not a hard shot at all. I’m betting I could have done the job with a Browning Hi Power; no kidding. As a rifle shot, it’s all but a done deal…even with a crappy rifle topped with a crappy scope.

My guess is that he probably intended to shoot while the motorcade was on Houston street coming toward him and just wasn’t ready. The little jaunt on Houston street would have been about 10-12 seconds and then they’re turning away from the sniper’s nest. While on Houston street, it would have been easy enough that Stevie Wonder could have made the shot. Once on Elm the shot was a bit more challenging, but not real tough. If he had a Garand it would have been massive carnage; if he so desired.

The view from the “grassy knoll” is a very good one; rather commanding. But it’s a more complex shot, Oswald’s position was MUCH better.
 

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Wasn't the shot less than a hundred yards Kevin? And the motorcade was moving fairly slow so people could see and wave at him, right?

I have always thought the multiple shooter scenario was bunk. The Jack Ruby thing certainly fanned the conspiracy flames, even with me. Never did understand why a kinda mob connected owner of a low class strip joint would be so enraged by the assassination that he would decide to take out the shooter himself. But life is funny, and it don't always make sense.
 

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I lived in Dallas and it would never have occured to me to visit Dealey Plaze .... mainly because it was 1960 and I was five years old, the assassination was still three years into my future.:rolleyes:

Others have also made this observation so I have no doubt it is true. One problem with the theory of there being a sniper on the "Grassy Knoll" is not the complexity or do-ability of the shot; a bullet from this direction would have hit Kennedy on the right parietal side of the skull. Conspiracy theorists claim the real bullet wound was altered to make it seem to come from the rear when they believe it came from the front. They are wrong, they SHOULD have claimed it came from the side. Unfortunatly they can't because they can't make it fit because NO analysis of Kennedy's wounds supports that theory.
There was an overpass in front of the motorcade that would have been a good perch for a rifleman....unfortunatly there were plenty of onlookers positioned there and it strains credulity there would be a sniper there and people would ignore him.
Also, some nearby storm drains have been postulated as lairs for snipers.
Unfortunatly none would have a line of sight to Kennedy at the point the X-100 limosine was when the fatal headshot was fired.

Even if the evidence did not itself point to Lee Harvey Oswald the the elimination of numerous alternate theories through logical deletion winds up leaving Oswald alone in the guilty man's chair when the music stops.
 

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If this had been a conspiricy it was the best one ever. There is no way someone would have not blabbed by this time.
 

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The last time the Shot show was in Dallas I made it a point to go there.

I'm inclined to agree with Kevin that it wasn't a very hard shot and the re-creation of the shot during the investigation didn't seem as hard as they made it out to be.

But I'd buy a ticket to see you try it with an HP...:-?
 

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Discussion Starter #7
The last time the Shot show was in Dallas I made it a point to go there.

I'm inclined to agree with Kevin that it wasn't a very hard shot and the re-creation of the shot during the investigation didn't seem as hard as they made it out to be.

But I'd buy a ticket to see you try it with an HP...:-?
I'm not saying I would get 3 hits out of 3 shots, but with a 13 round mag I can guarantee at least 3 hits, probably much more…even if he was bobbin & weaving. I carried a Hi Power for about 17 years, switched to my LW Commander about 8 years ago. In that 17 years of carrying the same pistol, I got to "know" the 9mm trajectory VERY well (much better than I do the .45). After moving to Arkansas where I have a 150 yard range in my back yard (shooting from my deck), I do the vast majority of my handgun practice at 150 yards; it's fun. At Thanksgiving my sister in law asked me to do some fancy shooting to show her boyfriend. We were cleaning out some old VHS tapes, so I had my little boy run one down to the end of the range. Using my new Colt's .38 Super, I center punched the VHS tape on the first shot…I'm not sure who's mind was blown more, his or mine. I learned long ago to quit while you're ahead. I just smiled and said "that's how it's done" and walked back into the house, quietly wondering to myself how I managed to pull that one off.

Often I shoot at clay pigeons that I lay on the backstop, and I manage to hit those with remarkable regularity. So I'm pretty confident I could make that shot with my old Hi Power. Most certainly could get it done if I were shooting as the car was coming up Houston street; that would be much easier. Charlie, I'm betting you could do it too, but you're too modest to say so.
 

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Well, you've found the secret... if you always shoot at longer ranges the normal stuff is easier. It really helps if you know where to hold :D

Come to Gunstock next time... we'll figure something out
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Others have also made this observation so I have no doubt it is true. One problem with the theory of there being a sniper on the "Grassy Knoll" is not the complexity or do-ability of the shot; a bullet from this direction would have hit Kennedy on the right parietal side of the skull. Conspiracy theorists claim the real bullet wound was altered to make it seem to come from the rear when they believe it came from the front. They are wrong, they SHOULD have claimed it came from the side. Unfortunatly they can't because they can't make it fit because NO analysis of Kennedy's wounds supports that theory.
As a Paramedic in a large metropolitan city for 16 years, I have seen the odd GSW or two. I have NEVER seen a wound of entrance that removes large chunks of things. Unless there are powder burns, every last wound of entrance looks like it was made with a paper hole punch. Wounds of exit are when you see things like what happened to Kennedy. The explosion of his frontal cranial area is as typical as you can get from a wound of exit. For anyone who knows anything about how bullets work, when you see the Zapruder film, it's obvious you're seeing an exit wound.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Well, you've found the secret... if you always shoot at longer ranges the normal stuff is easier. It really helps if you know where to hold :D

Come to Gunstock next time... we'll figure something out
I've always wanted to come to Gunstock, but something just always seems to prevent me from doing so. With the 9mm, the hold is exceptionally easy, you hold just the first hair high of dead on; it shoots pretty darned flat. Same for the .38 Super, but the .45 is much tougher for me past 100 yards. I seem to have about the same success with the .45 at 150 as I do with a 9mm or .38 Super at 200, which is to say somewhere around 50% on "torso" sized targets (usually stumps or barrels).
 

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As a Paramedic in a large metropolitan city for 16 years, I have seen the odd GSW or two. I have NEVER seen a wound of entrance that removes large chunks of things. Unless there are powder burns, every last wound of entrance looks like it was made with a paper hole punch. Wounds of exit are when you see things like what happened to Kennedy. The explosion of his frontal cranial area is as typical as you can get from a wound of exit. For anyone who knows anything about how bullets work, when you see the Zapruder film, it's obvious you're seeing an exit wound.
The comic magicians Penn & Teller did a pretty good job of debunking the JFK conspiracy myths, too. It was on one of their TV shows and also in one of their books.
 

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As a Paramedic in a large metropolitan city for 16 years, I have seen the odd GSW or two. I have NEVER seen a wound of entrance that removes large chunks of things. Unless there are powder burns, every last wound of entrance looks like it was made with a paper hole punch. Wounds of exit are when you see things like what happened to Kennedy. The explosion of his frontal cranial area is as typical as you can get from a wound of exit. For anyone who knows anything about how bullets work, when you see the Zapruder film, it's obvious you're seeing an exit wound.
While I don't have your experience as a medic I agree that what you're saying here makes sense. The conspiracists have tried to argue the Zapruder film has been altered .... but I have never been able to determine how from what I have seen. In 1998 the Zapruder film was digitally enhanced and a video tape of this was released in a documentary titled "Image of an Assassination." The documentary presents a version of the film as is, and various enhanced points of view -- which include part of the image that would normall not be seen, the part the film's sprocket holes cover. Having seen this film the "head shot" does look clearer, but not different than the standard view.
During high school and college I made and worked with film, both 8mm., Super 8mm., and 16mm. Anyone trying to alter a 8mm. film is in for some really tricky work -- and it's a bet whether or not the reult will pass through the projectors gate and other works without jamming.
The easiest way would be to take the 8mm. film and using an optical printer run off a 16mm. or 35mm. dupe, work on that, and then use that to produced an 8mm. copy.
The problem is that the people who made the aforementioned video had access to the original Zapruder film, the 8mm. film which I will remind those who are unfamiliar with film, this is the camera film. 8mm. film did not use a negative camera film from which one had to print a positive projection film, as some 16mm. commercial and 35mm. film did.
There is no sign of any tampering in the Zapruder film and other reproductions, and it has been established that the particular film known as the "Zapruder film" was actually produced by the camera Zapruder was using, it is not itself a illegitimate copy.
So that should debunk the conspiracy theorists.
But I'm pretty sure some of them will find a way around it......:-?
 

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bearcat6,

SIMPLE way to keep everyone quiet. = KILL all the people involved within a couple of hours, as "dead men tell no tales".
(FYI, I was in stationed with USACIDC at Long Beach, CA when OJ Simpson's wife/friend were murdered & their LIKELY two female assassins were each shot in the back of the head with a .25ACP & dumped in the San Pedro harbor, where the corpses were found by an LA Port Warden about 7AM, near Pier 88. Postmortems found out absolutely NOTHING about the 2 women, except that the were 56/58 inch in height & LIKELY Columbians, given clothing/shoes/stomach contents. = Jim Brown was CORRECT, "The Juice" was NOT the actual killer. ====>my "cops nose" tells me that it was a drug hit.)

yours, sw
 

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bearcat6,

SIMPLE way to keep everyone quiet. = KILL all the people involved within a couple of hours, as "dead men tell no tales".
(FYI, I was in stationed with USACIDC at Long Beach, CA when OJ Simpson's wife/friend were murdered & their LIKELY two female assassins were each shot in the back of the head with a .25ACP & dumped in the San Pedro harbor, where the corpses were found by an LA Port Warden about 7AM, near Pier 88. Postmortems found out absolutely NOTHING about the 2 women, except that the were 56/58 inch in height & LIKELY Columbians, given clothing/shoes/stomach contents. = Jim Brown was CORRECT, "The Juice" was NOT the actual killer. ====>my "cops nose" tells me that it was a drug hit.)

yours, sw
Never heard a word of any of this before. You have any other information?
 

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You'll never convince me O.J. didn't do it. There's plenty of DNA evidence to back it up too.
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You'll never convince me O.J. didn't do it. There's plenty of DNA evidence to back it up too.
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Me, too. But even more convincing to me was the look of shock on lawyer/friends Kardashians face when he heard the not guilty verdict. He looked like he got kicked in the stomach by a Missouri mule. He KNEW O.J. did it, and couldn't believe he was acquitted.

Whew! A long way from Dealy Plaza, ain't we?
 

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I hate it when threads drift away from fun stuff...

I also know about the hold for sub caliber stuff... way too easy
 

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Snake45; IrishCop,

You two have known me here for quite some time and know that I'm NOT a liar. - Since I seem to have "upset" a couple of members once more, I'll say no more about what I learned from the LAPWO here, unless someone asks me to.
(Snake & Irish, I'll PM you IF you like with enough details to suit most anybody who possesses an open mind.)

Nonetheless, based on my personal experiences when I ran the security for the Army at the 84 Olympic Games, the LAPD is notorious for mis-handling crime scenes, fudging data to get the "desired result", "creating evidence" and just plain lying.
(FYI, I was ordered by an USN senior flag officer NOT to deal at all with LAPD. So we MP/CID/SP folks "got in bed with" the CHP, BHSD, Airport Police & the Port Wardens.)

NOTE: I spent so much time at the LAPW HQ in 1983-4 that they finally offered me a second office (my actual office was at USAMTMC HQ on Pier 91) & access to reception/typing support. - LOTS of GREAT friends there!
(FWIW the typical LEO from LAPD "looks down their nose at" the Port Wardens. - they call them "the fish cops", so I'd guess that I'm an "honorary fish cop".)

yours, sw
 

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I hate it when threads drift away from fun stuff...

I also know about the hold for sub caliber stuff... way too easy
Okay, Charlie, I'll bite. By sub caliber are you refering to .17 and .22 caliber type ammo, or something.else? I'd like to pick your brain.
 
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