Gun Hub Forums banner

1 - 13 of 13 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,168 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
As a single man, I frequently eat out with a group of friends, often there are over 10 people. Often this means that we are seated at a long table against a wall of the restaurant.
I try to sit where I can observe the area around me; usually with my back to a wall. With a group like I described, this can mean being seated in the middle of the group, with diners to either side. Obviously, this means that I am effectively "pinned" in place. Rather than give up what social life I have by avoiding such groups, I see two options; choose to sit at the end of the table, or if I am seated near the middle, go ahead and sit facing the wall, and observe the actions of those who can see the rest of the restaurant, and act according to what they seem to be observing.

Thoughts from The Experienced Ones?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,360 Posts
Don't have the op to dine with a bunch but I prefer to be visual and mobil, always facing an entrance.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,543 Posts
Access to an exit is also important. One of the big tactical issues is having a protected/speedy exit from a deteriorating situation.

The end of the table is an option, as is trying to find something with a reflective surface to use to observe behind you if necessary. Just remember that fighting isn't always the best or most advisable option.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,168 Posts
Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
When I'm alone, it's "back against something solid, where I can see".
As for a 2-person meal (I'm told there is a thing called a "date" where this occurs frequently :p ), I try to sit where the other person (that "date" thing, perhaps?:confused:) can also look around.
The thing is, if I want to have something resembling a normal life, I cannot live in Condition Orange. It will mess me up, eventually.
----
EDIT: I just saw Wm. Moore's post, and I agree completely!
My heart and faith is in Jesus, but my "religion" is Devout Coward. I will always look for the safest way out. If the "safest" way is combat, so be it. Otherwise, I'm a rabbit!:)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,181 Posts
I have to attend quite a few functions. I am especially in Condition Orange during these functions but try to be very polite. I sit facing the door if I can, if not I try to have a mirror where I can see behind me.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
120 Posts
As a single man, I frequently eat out with a group of friends, often there are over 10 people. Often this means that we are seated at a long table against a wall of the restaurant.
I try to sit where I can observe the area around me; usually with my back to a wall. With a group like I described, this can mean being seated in the middle of the group, with diners to either side. Obviously, this means that I am effectively "pinned" in place. Rather than give up what social life I have by avoiding such groups, I see two options; choose to sit at the end of the table, or if I am seated near the middle, go ahead and sit facing the wall, and observe the actions of those who can see the rest of the restaurant, and act according to what they seem to be observing.
Thoughts from The Experienced Ones?
When I'm alone, it's "back against something solid, where I can see".
As for a 2-person meal (I'm told there is a thing called a "date" where this occurs frequently :p ), I try to sit where the other person (that "date" thing, perhaps?:confused:) can also look around.
The thing is, if I want to have something resembling a normal life, I cannot live in Condition Orange. It will mess me up, eventually.
"shep854":

No matter how much we like to think we are always aware of our surroundings and what is going on around us, we are not. And anyone who thinks that they are, is foolishly overconfident for there are always brief seconds here and there where our attention is diverted and our "guard" is down. We also can't be expected to see and hear everything, all the time, especially in a social environment as potentially as hectic as the one you describe here. So being realistic about that, I would think that further handicapping yourself by counting on the hoped-for actions of others, who might not only be experiencing such normal lapses themselves, but who might also lack the level of observational (and, better yet, analytical) skills you possess, is not the way to go!

At work, I've had partners that I trusted implicitly. Not only did I believe they would do what they said or were assigned to do but other than maintaining an overall awareness of them so that if they did get in over their head, I could help, I never had to watch or think about what they were doing. See Footnote

But I would get assigned to people I didn't know, and who might have been good workers but because I didn't know them, hadn't worked with them before, and wasn't sure if they approached things the way I and my friends did, I could not only not count on them in the same manner but I would find my normal focus on things was altered as I was constantly checking up on them too. Again, that didn't make them bad performers but just unknown entities that had to be approached differently.

What you appear to have is that situation times ten! So the first thing I would do is not count on your friends to either "see" a potential issue or clue you into it by (their) responding in an appropriate manner. Then I would always position myself at the end of the table so that you can exercise whatever options are needed for anything that might come up. Whether those options include sitting there, standing to expand on the number of possible responses open to you, exiting the area, phoning for help, fighting, some other action, or some combination of these actions, being positioned there is an absolute necessity.

Finally, and only because this is something of a gun-oriented forum, make sure that your means of carrying works in this environment too. A lot of holsters (and holster positions on and off the body) don't work in either crowded or seated positions. Make sure that whatever you choose in that regard works for you as well.

(NOTE, and outside the scope of the discussion here, in the working environment, there is also a difference between how a team-like entrance or activity is performed where everyone accepts responsibility for their role without losing focus or making sure that others are doing their job because they know that everybody else is approaching their role in the same manner vs. how a two man unit searches a group of people one at a time so they can cover each other and control the situation. When I stated that I never had to watch my partner, I obviously was watching him for not to do so would have been entirely the wrong thing to do. But it was more a matter of situational awareness and not of checking up on him for I knew how he approached the job.)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,168 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
P. Marlowe, et al, your thoughtful comments are exactly why I chose this forum to bring up the subject. I knew I would get thoughtful responses from seasoned, mature individuals than the chest-thumping all too common on other sites.
For my "devout coward" and "rabbit" comments, I would probably be badly burnt toast by now.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,627 Posts
Pete, I always try to get a back-to-the-wall-facing-the-entrance position, 'specially since my mobility is now mechanical, but it isn't always possible. You try, and do the best you can.

Mr. Marlowe, thank you, thank you (not a mis-type) for reminding everyone that no matter how much training, how dedicated, how (echh) tactical we consider ourselves to be, we are human beings. Pete, if you're out on a date with an attractive lady and aren't paying attention to her, shame on ya! ;)

I always told my wife that IF we were ever in a commercial robbery situation, that I would probably just observe, but if people started getting hurt, or we were told to lay down or herded into a another room, that I was going to war. My situation now is a bit different, but my mindset remains basically the same.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8,785 Posts
Interesting thread, lots of wisdom here. If I were ever to forget the attribute of humility, I need only come to this web site.

I'm just a ne'er do well waste of a 140 IQ and a top flight high school's attempt at educating me. I never served the people in any capacity, law enforcement or military, although for a number of years, I've been performing quite a few "menial" tasks for an increasing number of folks.

I'm glad to see just the practicality and wisdom without the chest thumping. With all the Hollywood action flicks and actors turned "tough guys" or even tough guys turned actors, in looking at our pop culture, one might get a different impression.

That would be anything less than a claim to be able to jump across a forty foot wide room and intercept a swat team like invasion of bad guys with just a Bowie knife and kill all twenty of them with two flicks of the blade would mean a downgrading of one's manhood. Truly, there are folks telling stories like that all across America right now.

As for me, when I want to know what the true wisdom for such situations is, from guys who would REALLY know, I'll come here.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
289 Posts
My dad bought a cafe in a small town when I was a kid. I used to run the cash register for him on weekends. After a while I noticed that everyone that came in sat so that they could see the door and see who came in. Not just a few, but EVERY SOUL sat like that, facing the door. Those at the counter would swivel their heads towards the door, when they heard it opening.

Nothing tactical there..just keeping tabs on who was in town.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,168 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
My dad bought a cafe in a small town when I was a kid. I used to run the cash register for him on weekends. After a while I noticed that everyone that came in sat so that they could see the door and see who came in. Not just a few, but EVERY SOUL sat like that, facing the door. Those at the counter would swivel their heads towards the door, when they heard it opening.

Nothing tactical there..just keeping tabs on who was in town.
PLUS, back then, keeping tabs on what everyone else was doing was a leading source of entertainment.:)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,627 Posts
PLUS, back then, keeping tabs on what everyone else was doing was a leading source of entertainment.:)
And it still is in the smaller burgs. You walk into a country store or restaurant in one of the smaller towns (like where I live) and everyone is checking you out.

Oh, and I swear, news travels at the speed of gossip 'round here. I don't know if science has ever been able to measure that, but I'm betting it's just under the speed of light! :p
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
289 Posts
Coffee time

:) Just had another flashback: When I was working , I went out of town every day. In one of the little towns where I used to go, there was a filling station on the edge of town where all the old farts used to sit and drink coffee all day long. The first time I went in there, I noticed that all of them all had their chairs facing the door, to see who came in. I announced in a loud, clear, voice, "You don't know me, boys, but I work for the power company." That satisfied everyone, and they all nodded in agreement and went back to their coffee.
 
1 - 13 of 13 Posts
Top