Gun Hub Forums banner

1 - 12 of 12 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
973 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I had the opportunity to fire a S&W 4046, the DAO version of the traditional Model 4006. I was pleasantly surprised by the trigger, but it did raise a question:

Once the trigger is pulled (to dryfire or for a misfire), the slide must be racked to reset the trigger. Is the absence of a 'second strike' ability necessary because of the design or omitted for some other reason?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
7,055 Posts
There has been quite a debate over "second strike" and I think S&W wisely didn't do it (nor did Glock... sigh). When a pistol goes "click" instead of "bang" the immediate action drill is tap-rack-ready (it used to be "bang" but that's another story). If a gun has second-strike capability valuable time can be wasted pulling the trigger again and again on a cartridge that didn't want to go off anyhow. While it is true that a second strike will often fire a round that didn't go off the first time if it doesn't then you gotta do the tap-rack drill anyhow. Why waste the time?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
973 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Thank you. I agree that it does seem to be a questionable practice to try to fire a cartridge a second time.

IIRC, the miltary insisted on a second strike capability when it purchased the Beretta. Do you know if the military trains to use it?

I really liked the S&W DAO trigger and wondered why they don't seem to be marketed to non-LE buyers. A dealer friend told me that he had trouble selling bargain priced DAO police trade-ins, and thought it might take a long time to sell a new one.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
7,055 Posts
The M-9 Beretta is a conventional da/sa pistol not dao.

I carried a 4046 for my last 5 years and was very happy with it. Your dealer is right though for DAO doesn't seem to do as well in the civilian market. Don't know why.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
973 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Charlie Petty said:
The M-9 Beretta is a conventional da/sa pistol not dao.
Sorry, but I changed the pistol type without clarifying my question.

I understand that the M-9 Beretta has the traditional DA/SA trigger, with a second-strike feature. My question is whether the military, or any LE organization that use such designs, trains to pull the trigger a second time if there's a misfire, instead of ejecting the round?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
7,055 Posts
I wouldn't think so...

The tap, rack drill solves the problem. Pulling the trigger again might not. I can't imagine any sane trainer teaching something that might cost the cop his life.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
723 Posts
The USAF did not teach double strike when I was in (78 - 98), they did teach the TRB.

Now I'm reminded of the article in Guns or Amercian Handgunner from 93 titled "USAF Pistol Training Is A Joke". Not as bad as it sounds. ;)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
356 Posts
I think one of the confusions is that folk relate double strike capability in a revolver with in a semi-automatic. For example, you can pull the trigger a second time on TDA guns and get a second strike on the same cartridge. But in many cases this is not what you really want. With a revolver the second pull actually brings a new cartridge up and into firing position.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,298 Posts
For the life of me, I can't understand why anyone would want second strike capability.

Sitting on my reloading bench for the last 8 years or so is a single Federal Hydra-Shok cartridge in either .38 Sp. or .357 Mag. (can't recall which right now, and don't want to take the time to go and look.) I was shooting an S&W 586 on an indoor range, and when it went "click," I followed standard procedure for a possible hangfire; kept the gun pointed downrange for 30 second, finger off the trigger. When nothing happened, I finished out the cylinder, then kept going back to that cartridge and tried again. Click. Hangfire drill again. Dumped the cartridges, tried that one again. Same result. 10 times I tried, 10 times I got a click.

Sometimes even the highest quality ammo malfunctions. If you shoot an auto, especially in a life-or-death situation, the ONLY response you should have to a "click" is a TRB drill. What if you get a "click" on the second strike? Gonna try for third, or fourth, maybe while getting ventilated by a goblin? Not this ol' boy.

I ocassionaly carry an S&W M60, and that's the beauty of a DA revo; no "drill," just activate the trigger again onto a fresh cartridge.

Here endeth the lesson.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,804 Posts
The problem I see with double-strike in a pistol is that you might wind up with a bullet midway down the tube. :cry:

BTDT. :oops:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
656 Posts
I carry a S&W 4516-2 that has double strike capability but I attended 2 courses taught by John Farnam so I never even think of doing anything but a TRB if a round does not go off on the first strike.
 
1 - 12 of 12 Posts
Top