[Snake45]

I know that dry-firing most centerfire handguns (1911 excepted) without a snap cap is a bad idea and will eventually lead to damage. Ditto most .22s, both long and short (there are exceptions, such as most Rugers). But I want to talk about dry-firing CF rifles.

When I was trained on M16, we spent a lot of time dry-firing the things before actually shooting them. And these were dedicated training rifles--they probably got several hundred, maybe several thousand "snaps" a day, five days a week, for years on end (and they were fired live, too). But I don't believe I've ever heard of a broken M16/AR-15 firing pin, at least not from dry-firing.

I imagine that M14s, M1s, M1 carbines, and M1903s were similarly dry-fired A LOT in their days. But I've never heard of any particular problems with firing pin breakage on any of them. Can I assume that these rifles are safe to dry-fire with impunity?

How about Brit Enfields (specifically, No. 4 and No. 5) and German Mausers? Safe to snap them?

While I'm at it, how about Remington 700? I don't think I've ever heard of a broken firing pin on one of those, either?

 

[Charlie Petty]

"I know that dry-firing most centerfire handguns (1911 excepted) without a snap cap is a bad idea and will eventually lead to damage."

Sez who?

If the 1911 is excepted... which it is... why aren't all the other automatic pistols very much like it not? Striker fired pistols can be dry fired until you get tired and be just fine. Same for centerfire revolvers.

I agree that many rimfires can be hurt if the firing pin actually contacts the chamber wall. Break open shotguns that have a removeable bushing around the firing pin can be an issue.

Striker fired bolt action rifles such as the Remington can be dry fired at will.

Any mechanical item can break but there is an equal chance that it will break during live fire than dry.

 

[Snake45]

"I know that dry-firing most centerfire handguns (1911 excepted) without a snap cap is a bad idea and will eventually lead to damage."

Sez who?

Says the guy who's broken, by dry-firing, the firing pins on a Smith 19, a Colt Python, and not just one but two WWII P.38s. That would be me. Perhaps you can see why I'm a bit leery of the practice now.

 

[ExSarge]

M1's and M14's were dry fired hundreds of times a day for weeks on end (by me too) without any problems. Most of my rifles get at least one or two dry fires after cleaning since that is the only way to check out reassembly and release the hammer. Never any problems with them.

Snake, why would you dry fire a P-38 since it has an external hammer which can be released?

Anybody know how to release the hammer on a 1911 with one hand?
Try this, pull the hammer all the way back which will depress the grip safety, then pull
the trigger letting the hammer move forward, gently resting it on the firing pin.

 

[Snake45]

Snake, why would you dry fire a P-38 since it has an external hammer which can be released?

Same reason one dry-fires any handgun: Practice.

Anybody know how to release the hammer on a 1911 with one hand?
Try this, pull the hammer all the way back which will depress the grip safety, then pull
the trigger letting the hammer move forward, gently resting it on the firing pin.

I can do it with either hand (hours of practice while watching TV, just for something to do with my hands). And I can even do it with a Commander hammer, which is quite a bit harder than with a spur hammer.

 

[Snake45]

I finally googled "enfield dry fire" and turned up this useful thread on another board:

Dry-firing for practice - Cast Boolits

Sounds to me like I don't need to worrry about the Enfields.

 

[Charlie Petty]

As I said anything can break.

Maybe it just wasn't your day

 

[IrishCop]

I've owned a bunch of different firearms (mostly handguns, but a few rifles and shotguns) and dry fired them ALL a bunch. Like Snake said, "for practice". I almost never had the money or the time to shoot as much as I wanted to. The only firing pin I broke was on S&W 9mm Centennial.

The only gun I use snap caps on is my USFA SAA. I DID break the hand (or pawl) spring on that twice, even using snap caps. I sent it off to Longhunters in Amarillo and they changed that over to the Ruger type coil spring. I still use snap caps, but haven't broken anything on that since, despite John Wayne movie marathons where I helped the Duke shoot a bunch of bad guys. Oh, and I use an Interarms large loop Model 92 and a Remington Coach gun when the action calls for them.

 

[spwenger]

Begging to Differ...

If the 1911 is excepted... which it is... why aren't all the other automatic pistols very much like it not? Striker fired pistols can be dry fired until you get tired and be just fine. Same for centerfire revolvers.

...From what I was taught in a 2010 armorer course, Springfield Armory XD pistols are an exception. The striker, aka firing pin, uses a roll pin, driven in from the top of the slide, as a retainer. Repeated dry fire without some form of snap cap will batter this inexpensive part to the point where the pistol may not fire reliably.

 

[William R. Moore]

I'd read that dryfiring a 1911 can lead to enlarging the firing pin hole in the breech. The primer stops the inertial firing pin travel, without it, the pin simply continues until it contacts something in the breech that makes it stop.

I've actually seen several 1911 firing pins (that obviously were lacking in heat treat) where the firing pin was actually swaged down to a uniform diameter (instead of a taper) by dryfiring. I can only recall one slide that desparately needed a bushing in the firing pin hole, although I saw a couple that prudence would probably suggested it. The .45 ACP is a low pressure round and allows one to get away with a few things that probably aren't really as they should be.

 

[Snake45]

Gee, I'm glad I spent the extra effort to specify that I wanted to talk about centerfire rifles.

But just since 1911s have come up, the only damage I've ever seen from dry-firing a 1911 was with one of mine that had a cast, and apparently un-heat-treated, firing pin stop. A few thousand snaps and the hole would start to swage closed, preventing the firing pin from coming back through. It was an ODI part. I fixed it once with a file, and the second time it happened, I threw the thing away and replaced it with a surplus GI part.

 

[William R. Moore]

I know that dry-firing most centerfire handguns (1911 excepted) without a snap cap is a bad idea ....

From thine own mouth

 

[Snake45]

From thine own mouth

If only I'd put rifles in the thread title....

 

[Kevin Gibson]

I’m a dedicated dry fire fanatic. I dry fire every day, and I gave up snap caps a good two decades ago; they don’t last worth a chit. And until a couple of months ago, I had only broken one firing pin. Then within a week, sitting in the same chair, I snapped my Beretta Model 70 and heard the end of the firing pin touch down across the room. Few days later, I’m dry firing my Astra A-70 and the same thing. Both had been dry fired oodles and oodles of times; I guess these two don’t appreciate being dry fired.

As for 1911’s, I’ve never run into any sort of trouble at all. Regarding rimfires, it all depends on the rimfire in question. Even many guns made before WWII are made such that the firing pin never fully contacts the chamber area, but some do. My S&W 617 has a good quarter million dry snaps if it’s had a one, never a problem.

If you ask me, the price of a firing pin or two per decade is a very cheap price to pay for staying frosty with your guns.

Regarding rifles, I have had ZERO problems with my any and all rifles; never once damaged a rifle from dry firing. But I’ll admit, my rifles don’t get dry fired anything like my handguns.

Various Mauser’s (’94, ’96, ’98; including P-14/17 Enfields)
Springfields
Enfields
Winchesters 54 & 70 (both pre and post), including many “other” action types (I have a collection of pump action .22’s, all are safe to dry fire)
All manner of Remingtions…really, probably every Remington model made
Most Ruger’s
Howa (Including AR-180…do know a guy who broke a 180 hammer once)
AR-15’s, mostly Colt’s
H&K’s (91,93,94)
Sig STGw-57 (Oh what I’d give to have that one back)
M1A’s (both of mine were Springfield receivers with a GI kit)
FAL’s
Garands & Carbines
Uzi / Sterling
AK’s (Russian, Chinese)

 

[spwenger]

I'm a dedicated dry fire fanatic. I dry fire every day, and I gave up snap caps a good two decades ago; they don't last worth a chit.

I don't own an XD so I've never done it but it's pretty easy and inexpensive to make a snap cap. Simply load a bullet into an empty, decapped and resized case and fill the primer pocket with silicone gel. The biggest concern, in my mind, is marking the snap cap/dummy round well enough that it will stand out if it gets mixed with live rounds.

(I believe this works as well for those who want to use them in rifles as for those who want to use them in handguns.)

 

[Kevin Gibson]

I've tried that with silicone and other materials, it doesn't take long before it falls out and you have to do it over again. Like I said, firing pins are really cheap; and I've yet to have to replace one on one of my defensive pistols.

 

[spwenger]

Your Guns and Your Pocketbook...

I've tried that with silicone and other materials, it doesn't take long before it falls out and you have to do it over again. Like I said, firing pins are really cheap; and I've yet to have to replace one on one of my defensive pistols.

...but are firing pins really cheaper than a tube of silicone gel?

More to the point, unless it's strictly a fun gun, how can you predict when the firing pin will break?

Personally, I have never hesitated to dry-fire any of my centerfire guns without a snap cap but I did get burned one time, buying a used centerfire rifle with a broken firing pin. It was and FN-49 (7mm) - a gun that was made initially with a firing pin prone to breakage. I was lucky to find a replacement but, as I recall, it was not the final two-piece version.

 

[Kevin Gibson]

...but are firing pins really cheaper than a tube of silicone gel?

More to the point, unless it's strictly a fun gun, how can you predict when the firing pin will break?

Considering I've had a grand total of 3 break over a nearly 40 year period; yeah, they're cheaper.

I think we have to put things into perspective…I have a good deal of confidence on this matter, not only from my direct personal experience of I don't know how many dry fire snaps in nearly 4 decades of the practice. But then add in my experience in gunsmithing. I worked for a small arms importer in the '80's (Pacific International / ARMEX) and we imported somewhere over 15,000 GI 1911's and about 11,000 Hi Powers all left over from WWII and other various conflicts. When we went through these guns that had been used for at least 40 years, there were precious few that required a new firing pin…and by that I'm betting it was less than 10 for both the Hi Power's & 1911's. Now I'll further qualify that… There were several guns in each batch that were incomplete. Some would be missing firing pin, stop, and spring. I could make the assumption that those were missing because they were broken (there were many more incomplete 1911's than Hi Powers). If that's the case, the number of replaced firing pins would rise to around 40 out of a batch of very hard used 1911's with at least 40 years of service.

What it comes down to is, I can't predict when any part on any of my guns will fail. So I choose guns that are of high quality, and I pay attention to what they go through during their lifetimes. I maintain them reasonably well so I don't expect any issues related to abuse. At some point I know the firing pin on my defensive gun will fail…I'm just not sure if that will happen in my lifetime.

 

[Snake45]

Now we're getting somewhere!

I've made .38, 9mm, and .45ACP snap caps with silicone in the primer pockets, used them for years, and they've stood up to thousands of hits. I'm a believer.

 

[William R. Moore]

Most bolt guns use the cocking piece contacting the bolt body to stop the forward travel of the firing pin. I don't really feel like trying to take apart the only SMLE on hand to confirm this also covers Brit gunmaking.

I believe most rifles that use inertial firing pins use some kind of flange near the rear of the pin (M-whatever) as a travel stop. I can't recall what Remington uses on their CF rifles/shotguns that aren't bolt guns.

I do recall reading that the two piece firing pin of the 1903 was prone to breakage, but I have no clue as to what the cause of those failures were.

Given the striking force of most CF firing pins, I've gotta doubt that the resistance of the primer really reduces the impact on whatever the travel stop is to any significant amount.