[Daniel Watters]

FBO DAILY ISSUE OF OCTOBER 03, 2004 FBO #1042
SOURCES SOUGHT

Future Handgun System

The US Army at TACOM-ARDEC is seeking information about commercial, off-the- shelf, non-developmental item (NDI) pistols, which can meet the Army's needs (with only minor modifications if required) for a future handgun system. The focus of the future handgun system (FHS) is to augment close quarters battle and security/force protection operations, and to offer significant improvements over the current handgun system. Additionally, the FHS will support the requirement for a personal defense weapon.

The FHS will provide increases in terminal ballistic potential, durability, and reliability over the currently fielded M9/9x19mm and M11/9x19mm pistols. Specific features and characteristics of the FHS will include, but are not limited to, an integral accessory rail, enhanced day/night sighting capability, configurable grips (to suit the individual soldier's need), and will permit the use of a sound suppressor when the threat/mission requires. The FHS will use munitions that are optimized for Army full-spectrum contingencies/applications. The FHS will also have a suitable, multi-configurable, holster(s) and ammunition carrier(s).

Information about existing production pistols and/or pistols of this type that are currently in development and associated ammunition that offers increased terminal ballistic potential is desired.

 

[Dean Speir]

 

This is some of the same "kitchen-sink" crud that went into the December 1989 USSOCOM RFP.

What in the ever-lovin' blue-eyes li'l world sort of requirement is there for a sound-suppression capability on something intended to replace the M9 and M11?!?

 

 

[Mad Ogre]

The FHS will provide increases in terminal ballistic potential, durability, and reliability over the currently fielded M9/9x19mm and M11/9x19mm pistols. Specific features and characteristics of the FHS will include, but are not limited to, an integral accessory rail, enhanced day/night sighting capability, configurable grips (to suit the individual soldier?s need), and will permit the use of a sound suppressor when the threat/mission requires. The FHS will use munitions that are optimized for Army full-spectrum contingencies/applications. The FHS will also have a suitable, multi-configurable, holster(s) and ammunition carrier(s).

I've got the gun for them.
Springfield Operator TRP.
Edgeworks SOC rig.
Pierce Grips modular grips.
Caliber 9X23MM.

 

[jar]

This is some of the same "kitchen-sink" crud that went into the December 1989 USSOCOM RFP.

What in the ever-lovin' blue-eyes li'l world sort of requirement is there for a sound-suppression capability on something intended to replace the M9 and M11?!?

The need for the surpressor is related to Urbane Noise Abatement Laws and the OHSA regulations. As our laws for safety and quality of life are adopted in more and more areas of the world, it is getting harder and harder to find a place where even our general miltary can discharge a firearm without violating some International, National, Regional or Local Noise Abatement Law.

In addition, even if we equiped every one of our soldiers with adequate hearing protection devices, there is always the possibility that they might discharge the weapon in the presence of someone who is inadequately protected. Such collateral damage could be minimized though by equiping all of our troops with an adequate supply of foam ear plugs in sterile, individual packaging which could be handed out before any such handgun discharge.

It would be prefered if a relative cost benefit analysis were done on the effectiveness of equiping all handguns with suppressor capabilities vs. the simple expedient of the sterile, individual packages of single use foam ear plugs.

 

[Mad Ogre]

That sounds like a fine arguement for the allowance of suppressors on all firearms. Something that should never have been regulated in the first place. Guns are very noisy things and they don't have to be... but thanks to some retarded lawmaker who should have been taken out and beaten with sack of hammers....
Grrrrr....

And I really don't like the new measure of a Congress Person's career... based on the number of bills submitted and laws passed. That's just creating a never ending engine of new and progressively useless laws.
I saw we just roll everything back the the Justinian Code and call it good. Scratch that. They Burgundian Code. Using the Bergundian wergeld alotments as set.
What's the wergeld on a tribal leader? 200 gold coins?

 

[TBeck]

What in the ever-lovin' blue-eyes li'l world sort of requirement is there for a sound-suppression capability on something intended to replace the M9 and M11?!?

Probably because the last suppressed pistol the military ordered morphed from a sidearm into a crew-served weapon. They want something smaller that can take one of those Hollywood "silencers" that look like a roll of quarters.

...configurable grips (to suit the individual soldier's need), and will permit the use of a sound suppressor...

Will Walther build the plant in the U.S?

 

[Charlie Petty]

They wouldn't have to...

The SW99 is largely made here already and if it got sticky I'm sure the same company the molds the Sigma frames could do the 99.

Can anyone think of another "off the shelf" gun that meets the grip criteria?

 

[pdb]

They wouldn't have to...
Can anyone think of another "off the shelf" gun that meets the grip criteria?

Doesn't Sig's 'sig pro' polymer gun have an interchangable backstrap? I seem to recall that being a feature when it was introduced, but Sig Arm's site doesn't mention it now. It does fit the bill for the accessory rail and the other doodads.

I wonder if Sig could enlarge it to .45 ACP size, since that's how I read the "increases in terminal ballistic potential" requirement.

Or maybe the whole thing is code for "H&K, please shrink the grip size and trigger distance of the USP45F so girls can shoot it."

Peter

 

[Mad Ogre]

If I recall correctly, the 1911 grips are held on with 2 screws on each side. The backstrap thing, to me, is a gimick.

 

[Dean Speir]

JAY-sus, JAR, I wish I'd written that!

 

[Charlie Petty]

If I recall correctly, the 1911 grips are held on with 2 screws on each side. The backstrap thing, to me, is a gimick.

I couldn't disagree more. I'm not exactly sure what the relevance is to 1911 grip screws, but when one is trying to find something that will fit- and be comfortable- for the majority of the population the thickness of the grip is far less important than the length. Most people will small hands have to twist their hand around the grip in an unnatural position to reach the trigger and get a good hold on the front strap. The three different backstrap sizes should meet the needs of shooters with tiny- or ham- hands.

There is a single roll pin that holds the backstrap and it also can double as a lanyard loop.

 

[Jamie C.]

Can anyone think of another "off the shelf" gun that meets the grip criteria?

This one?
[IMG=left]http://www.hk-usa.com/images/handguns/p2000us.jpg[/IMG]
http://www.hk-usa.com/handguns/p2000.html

Which would seem to be the reply to this:

Or maybe the whole thing is code for "H&K, please shrink the grip size and trigger distance of the USP45F so girls can shoot it."

Peter

J.C.

 

[Mad Ogre]

The Grip Screw refrence was in regards to the fact that grips have been interchangable since 1911.
It sounds like they are wanting the P2000, indeed. And with an XM-8 contract... HK is probably giving them a good package deal.
The real question is about the caliber. It sounds like they don't want 9MM.

 

[Daniel Watters]

Of course, if HK were to crossbreed their new USP45CT with the P2000's interchangeable backstrap inserts, they'd have most of the bases covered.

 

[SpecialEd]

You know what? If I don't know how to fly and can't be taught then I don't get put in the cockpit of a fighter plane. If I can't hold a gun or can't be taught to shoot one correctly then I shouldn't be put in the infantry! That's what they have kitchen and laundry detail for. :wink:

Ed

 

[SpecialEd]

I don't understand the improved terminal ballistics either. It seems to me they are saying "You know what? this little ole 9mm sure is cute but the bad guys don't seem to be dropping as fast.."

Why don't they just issue everyone a sawed off whippet gun?

:soap:

 

[Snake45]

Why don't they just issue everyone a sawed off whippet gun?

:soap:

Why don't they just teach everybody how to shoot?

 

[Jamie C.]

Why don't they just issue everyone a sawed off whippet gun?

Or they could just do something like this:
[IMG=left]http://www.bushmaster.com/shopping/Carbon15/Images/C15P97wbgrnd.jpg[/IMG]

Would solve that "terminal ballistics" problem, don't ya think?
Of course, the holster issue might take a little work to figure out... :roll: :wink:

J.C.

 

[jar]

JAY-sus, JAR, I wish I'd written that!

You did. But I used my patent pending mind control regurgitator and sucked that sucker out before you even noticed it was gone.

 

[MattR]

Here's my vote.