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:roll: I have to ask; ‘What is it about owning a Glock that seems to create this, ostrich with his head in the sand, ass in the air, mentality?’ If someone said; ‘The brakes on my Blazer aren’t as good as the brakes on my Bronco.’, most drivers would, simply, want to know more. However if any sort of statement diminishing the safety or reliability of a Glock pistol is made, then, the most intense owner/user passions seem to be aroused!

Historically, it has, now, been well-established that Glock pistols have more of a propensity to explode than many other manufactures or designs. (Which, by the way, also blowup on occasion, but without the same apparent frequency.) In reading about Glock pistols, ‘across the boards’ I’ve come to the personal conclusion that many Glock owners would be less upset if told that their spouses had been caught cheating rather than Glock pistols are easy to blow up. It’s incredible!

This often reported, frequently ignored, and usually rationalized propensity for Glock pistols to explode is exacerbated by several criteria particular to Glock’s design: (1.) excessively rebated chambers, (2.) sharp edges around the chamber, ‘leade’ area, (3.) tight polygonal hammer-forged barrels, and (4.) the use of modern high pressure cartridges in Glock pistols: i.e., 357 SIG, S&W 40, 10 mm, and (also) the 45 ACP. (I hesitate to include the 45 ACP cartridge, here, because I am of the opinion that: the use of Federal (Hydra-Shok) ammunition, owner neglect, and (at one point) a bad batch of barrel steel are the outstanding factors involved in 45 ACP Glock pistol explosions.)

I never cease to be amazed at the almost total lack of common sense regarding the use of Glock pistols that I read about across the various shooting forums. If someone said; ‘I drove my car for more than 100,000 miles without changing the oil.’ we’d, all, know what to think. (I don’t, even, need to explain – do I!) However, when some shooter brags; ‘I have shot my Glock for more than 5,000 rounds without cleaning it.’ the typical response seems to be; ‘Wow!’ What has happened to: shooting experience, military training, and good old fashioned (not so common) common sense? At this juncture, ‘Why’ even bother using Remington Golden Sabres or Speer Gold Dots in the pistol? This filthy dirty, badly neglected thing may not fire, at all; or it may, even, explode! Frankly, I doubt that the boys on, ‘Seal Team #6’ carry their pistols in this sort of crummy condition; yet, this sort of braggadocio is, both, accepted and common in far too many posts, and at too many Glock forums!

Is anything said, so far, a recommendation to get rid of your Glock pistols? No! Not in this author’s intent! ‘What’ I am stating, here - ‘What’ I am recommending - is for Glock owners to become more aware of the pluses and minuses associated with the use of Glock’s modern plastic pistols. I would encourage all Glock owners to use their Glock pistols the same way they operate their automobiles: with care, skill, and knowledge. To be perfectly candid, (which I, often, hesitate to be) I love my Glock Model 21’s. I’m very fond of the trigger pull as well as the balance of this pistol design. (I do have certain reservations about Glock’s so-called, ‘safe-trigger action’; but this is a subject for another post.) Let me offer the following suggestions for the safe use of a Glock-designed pistol:

(1.) Use common firearms’ sense: Keep your Glock pistol properly lubricated as well as reasonably clean.

(2.) Develop an acute sense of awareness about keeping your finger outside the trigger guard. Always use a holster that completely covers a Glock’s trigger guard area; and, if you carry unconventionally, take the precaution of installing a, ‘Saf-T-Blok’ device behind the trigger. I keep several, ‘Saf-T-Bloks’ around the house; if I have a Glock pistol lying about, then, I make sure there’s a, ‘Saf-T-Blok’ installed behind the trigger. Just so you know I have found that using one of these safety devices adds ZERO TIME to the draw.

Remember important (frequently un:discussed) points like; ‘If you drop a Glock pistol, DON’T attempt to catch it before it hits the ground.’ You might snare the trigger guard if you should attempt this and fire the pistol. Remember that the Glock design precludes firing on impact – so, just, let that Glock fall.’

(3.) At least once a year, do a complete detail-strip of your Glock pistol(s). Pay particular attention to the trigger connector bar and trigger spring, as well as the slide and its internal areas. Personally, I clean out my extractor rod and firing pin channels with Q-Tips or pipe cleaners every 1,500 rounds. Clean and take a close look at the following slide components: the f.p. safety block, extractor, extractor spring & rod, the firing pin assembly - including the f.p. itself, the f.p. spring, the retainer cups, and surrounding spacer. If any of the parts in, either, the trigger group or slide are nicked or show the slightest sign of wear, replace them before shooting the pistol again.

While there are many, ‘Glockophiles’ who would take issue with me, I continue to remain unconvinced that it is impossible for a Glock pistol to, ‘slam-fire’. This would, of course, result in an, ‘out-of-battery’ firing event. I have read reports that Glock firing pins have, occasionally, been discovered protruding from their holes. This mechanical problem appears to be caused by impingement between the f.p. and the f.p. safety block. It is, also, conceivable to me that the f.p. spring cups might be involved. This is the particular reason that I clean and inspect my own Glock slide internals as often as I do; and, once again, I do NOT agree with the idea that it is harmless to repeatedly, ‘dry-fire’ a Glock pistol.

(4.) Listen to the manufacturer, (Glock) who isn’t always to be ignored; and do NOT shoot either lead or, ‘copper-plated’ bullets in your Glock pistol. Yes, I know that, ‘Harry the Frequent Poster’ over at GT uses, ‘hard-antimony lead’ with great success; and, ‘Bill the GT Glock Guru’ loves to shoot his inexpensive, ‘copper-washed’ bullets which he consumes by the many thousands of rounds; but, YOU SHOULD NOT!

(5.) Use more than average care if you reload for a Glock pistol; and I strongly recommend taking the time to run your reloads through a nice tight case gauge (Dillon) before you package them for use. (If your experience is similar to my own, you will occasionally be surprised at what you find and very glad the offending reload didn’t make it into your Glock. I’ve, also, spoken with other Glock pistol shooters who have all told me, essentially, the same thing: Either they do not use reloads; or, else, not one of them shoots reloads in his Glock pistol using the same brass beyond the sixth (6th) time. Personally, I think this is an excellent rule-of-thumb; I use it myself; and I, also, recommend it for other Glock owners who insist on reloading for a Glock.

(6.) If you use a Glock pistol in one of the previously mentioned, ‘high pressure’ calibers, then, develop the habit of NOT re:chambering the same round twice; and, no matter how many GT’ers are doing it, DO NOT reload or use reloads for any of these, ‘hot’ cartridges. I’m not saying this can’t be done; obviously it can. I am stating that it’s, just, not worth the increased risk; and let’s not forget that the manufacturer (who isn’t always to be ignored) states, in ALL recent Glock annual magazines, NOT TO RELOAD FOR A GLOCK PISTOL. (At this point, here’s a, ‘tip of the hat’ to the dummy, ‘Glockophile’ who’s going to come back at me with; ‘This is nothing more than legal boiler-plate.’ As of May, 2004, it should be painfully obvious that IT IS NOT.)

(7.) For the record, I think it’s about time that someone pointed out that it isn’t, simply, unsupported cases or powder overcharges that will, ‘kaBoom!’ a Glock. IT’S BULLET SETBACK – INSTEAD! A Glock reloader can scrupulously examine his case heads for expansion, be meticulously accurate with his powder charges, and STILL BLOW HIS GLOCK UP IN HIS FACE!

(8.) The other critical point about reloading for a Glock is being able TO GUARANTEE the grasp of the crimp - every time - on every round. With repetitively fired brass, this is not, always, an easy thing to do. In spite of the constant recommendations by several loudmouthed, ‘Glockophiles’ who frequently post, ‘Get a set of Lee FCD dies.’ (factory crimp dies) FCD’s aren’t going to save you from the dangers of using out-of-specification brass in a Glock pistol. FCD’S will, only, REDUCE THE FREQUENCY of incorrectly assembled brass going, ‘kaBoom!’ in the first place!

(9.) I cannot help, but, to question the arrangement and inherent strength of the four, ‘L’ flanges that secure the Glock slide to the frame. Most of us are aware that Glock frames flex when the pistol is fired. To the best of my knowledge no data has been developed, and nobody knows how much frame-flexing occurs while a, ‘kaBoom!’ is taking place – or the EXTENT to which this flexing contributes to the violence of an incipient explosion. Personally, I’d be a lot happier with a much stronger frame-to-slide lockup than the 4 flange system that Glock is presently using. The rumors I’ve heard about the essential design of the La Francaise pistol (The early 1900’s progenitor of Glock’s basic design.) may, in fact, be correct: Glock pistols may, indeed, be best suited to calibers equivalent to 9 mm and below. The precaution is that it needs to be remembered the La Francaise was an ALL-METAL handgun; and, because they’re, now, heading away from 40 S&W and back to 9mm, the NYPD appears to agree with this assessment.

(10.) From watching the various Glock websites over the past two years I have come to the FIRM CONCLUSION that Glock 45 ACP pistols AND Federal 45 ACP cartridges DO NOT belong together. This opinion has been reinforced by a personal experience I had while shooting my way through several packs of Federal Hydra-Shok ammunition: A friend looked at some of my spent brass and said; ‘If I were you, I’d stop using those Federal rounds in that Glock pistol of yours – right now!’ When I looked at the cases he was holding, I had to, ‘blink’: The primers had, ‘melted’ and were overflowing the cups! My friend’s alertness had saved me and my G-21 from catastrophe, just, in time! In reading across the boards, another interesting coincidence is the fact that so many G-21 failures seem to take place while using one form or another of Federal ammunition. This is a curious phenomenon that, while it clearly demands further investigation, is rapidly becoming increasingly inadequate for the Glock factory to successfully hide behind.

(11.) Of late I’ve, also, become suspicious of the Glock factory’s often repeated claim that these, ‘kaBoom!’ problems are, always, the result of defective ammunition. I’m starting to suspect that NO ONE CAUSE is at the heart of this problem. I’ve spent many hours reviewing reports of these events and the replies that have been made to them at such websites as: Glock Talk, The High Road, Stopping Power, Glock-Guns, Tactical Weapons Forums, Packing.org, etc. To date, I’ve formed this tentative conclusion: The problem is a subtle one. It cannot be clearly traced to anything as simple as merely firing, ‘out-of-battery’. I’m going to go, ‘out on a limb’, here, and suggest that several principal factors are involved: (1.) Excessive chamber rebate, (2.) Excessive chamber pressure, along with (3.) a, ‘peak pressure pulse’ that, (4.) flexes or, ‘chatters’ the slide-to-barrel lockup (5.) breaking the integrity of this lock and (6.) causing the cartridge to back out, just, enough to create many (but NOT all) of these mysterious, ‘kaBoom!’ problems.

To date most investigators have focused on the areas of: excessive chamber rebate, sharp chamber leade, and the well-known propensity of polygonal rifling to increase chamber pressure upon firing; however, based on my own investigations, I have come to additionally believe that the Glock pistol’s easily disengaged, ‘modified Browning lockup’, frame flex, and four-point slide/frame contact are other major contributors to Glock’s increasingly well-known and continually misunderstood, ‘kaBoom!’ problems.

THESE GLOCK, ‘KaBOOM!’ PROBLEMS ARE REAL! BY THEMSELVES, THEY ARE NOT GOING TO GO AWAY; AND ALL OF US WHO OWN AND USE GLOCK PISTOLS MUST LEARN TO DEAL EFFECTIVELY WITH THESE PROBLEMS OR RISK HAVING OUR GUNS BLOW UP IN OUR FACES! GLOCK OWNERS MUST NOT ALLOW THEMSELVES TO BE EITHER BLINDED BY PERSONAL PREJUDICE, OR OTHER OBFUSCATORY INFLUENCES, SUCH AS: CLEVER FACTORY EXCUSES, CONTRIVED INTERNET HYPE AND DISINFORMATION, OR THAT OTHER GREAT INHIBITOR OF INTELLECTUAL ANALYSIS - VITRIOLIC ‘GLOCKOPHILE’ RANTING AND RAVING ACROSS, ‘THE BOARDS’ THAT SERVES TO DO LITTLE MORE THAN COVERUP GLOCK’S CONTINUING REAL WORLD PROBLEMS WITH OCCASIONALLY EXPLODING, BUT ALWAYS DANGEROUS, PLASTIC PISTOLS.

As I’ve indicated, I DO reload for my Glock Model G-21’s. All of my reloads are manufactured to fire at pressures concomitant with velocities between 800-825 FPS while using 230 GRN FMJ ball ammo, AND 925-950 FPS with 185 GRN JHP ammo. I, also, take the precaution of using 45 ACP +P brass; and, I keep the good habit of not re:chambering the same round twice! Furthermore, as I’ve indicated, after six reloads I discard the used brass before I have to start worrying about: increased case length, case-head expansion, wall-thinning and advanced brittleness, or primer pocket problems. (None of which I’ll stop to correct because I run a high-volume progressive press; and most pistol ammunition, simply, isn’t worth the time for me to do high precision case prep on.) Oh yeah I, also, own Bar-Sto Precision match barrels; but, they’re not always installed in my G-21’s. Much of the time I’ll, simply, use my standard 3rd generation barrels. (This, of course, tells you that I do not regard any aftermarket barrel – broach-rifled or not - as a, ‘cure-all’ for Glock’s, ‘kaBoom!’ problems.)

For their own personal safety, I believe that people who own and use Glock pistols need to understand that:

KaBOOMS! ARE MORE OFTEN CAUSED BY LOOSE CRIMPING AND/OR BULLET SETBACK THAN BY BULGED CASEHEADS, OR POWDER OVERCHARGES! Add any or all of the other factors I've mentioned into this mix and that, 'kaBoom!' is absolutely guaranteed!

Although I fully recognize that kids aren’t going to stop smoking grass, and, ‘Glockophiles’ usually can’t be reasoned with, nevertheless, I sincerely hope that you enjoy shooting your Glock pistol(s) as much as I like to shoot mine; and (because I hate to see women cry) that you, also, shoot your Glock with wisdom and safety, too. :wink:

Note: (Yes, it is, ‘kaBoom!’, ‘KaBOOM!’ or, ‘kB!’ – Not any of the other frequent misspellings we, so often, see. Dean Speir invented the word; and he’s the ultimate authority on how it should be spelled! These are the ways HE spells it.)
 

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It looked good so far. But I had to take a nap. I'll come back and read a little bit each day... :lol:

Seriously, Welcome to the forum and keep up the contributions!

Ed
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
:D Gee, thanks guys! Looks like I'm going to have to stay up late trying to outdo myself, now. :mrgreen:
 

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I'll assume this was a good post. Having never been to Evelyn Woods, I never read any post longer than three paragraphs.

I do know what you mean about Glock owners though. The biggest problem the glockies don't want to hear about is the unsupported chamber. A lot of people I've talked to won't buy a Glock until they do something about this.

This is not a problem for me as I don't care for the looks of the Glocks and wouldn't buy one based on that one criteria. Too many pretty guns out there that I want to spend my money on.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
ExtremeDooty said:
I'll assume this was a good post. Having never been to Evelyn Woods, I never read any post longer than three paragraphs.
Funny you should say that! I have been to Evelyn Woods; and, for whatever it's worth, you should never assume!

I do know what you mean about Glock owners though. The biggest problem the glockies don't want to hear about is the unsupported chamber. A lot of people I've talked to won't buy a Glock until they do something about this.
If you've been reading, 'The Gun Zone' it should be obvious that Glock has experienced many of the same problems as any number of other manufacturers in: product design, materials, and manufacturing techniques. From where I stand the most remarkable thing about the, 'Glock Phenomenon' of the past 15 years is the extraordinary public relations events and whiz-bang advertising that this firm, routinely, conducts.

Quite frankly, I consider myself very lucky to have, somehow, acquired two Model 21's which I've been able to tweak into 100% reliability without any mishaps. I am indebted to a lot of other shooters as well as a few extraordinarily literate and brave souls who have been willing to, 'take the heat' in order to wise up other gunmen like myself and bring us, quickly, up to speed!

After a lifetime of shooting a wide range of firearms, I came to the modern, 'plastic pistol' phenomenon with a sense of: awe, curiosity, and surprise. Hey, back in high school, guys that drove really classy hot rods weren't as fanatically devoted to their highly customized and polished, 'babe mobiles' as any number of these so-called plastic pistol, 'Kool-Aid drinkers' whom I've encountered over the past two years!

Case-in-point? OK, the safety system on a Glock is good in the event that the weapon is dropped; but, everything else about Glock's safety system, just plain, 'sucks'! Nevertheless, an entire generation of, 'He-must-have-had-his-finger-on-the-trigger-dudes' has arisen to vociferously defend everything from bathroom discharges to, otherwise competent, officers shooting themselves in the head with their dropped Glocks - amazing, but, true!

I have spent more than 50 years around all different makes and models of guns; and I continue to find myself stunned by the passionate excuses and convoluted reasoning that the plastic pistol crowd repeatedly demonstrates! Even huge, army-sized, police departments bend over backwards to compensate for serious plastic pistol problems; and their administrators repeatedly adjust their: equipment, methods, and manual-at-arms to accommodate plastic weapon failures and foibles that would - absolutely - never have been tolerated by the, 'gun-savvy veterans' of my youth!

Up until very recently I largely trusted Glock's Model 19; I, even, came within a, 'hair's breath' of buying one; however, recent events have convinced me that I'm very lucky to have two reasonably safe and well functioning 45acp plastic pistols; and, all things considered, it really isn't smart for me to continue to expand my investments in, 'plastic'. A careful study of the facts-at-hand indicates that even the steel used in many plastic pistols is of, too often, inconsistent and inferior quality.

Let me ask; 'How many shooters realize that the expression, 'pistol whipped' is about to pass from the modern gunman's vocabulary?' This is true, simply, because plastic pistols of all kinds are an unmistakable step-down from steel; and some of these modern day, plastic pistol, safety systems are, well, insanely dangerous!

Sure the kids will disagree; but, I haven't made it to 61 years of age by being, either, 'weapons-stupid' or easily impressed. In addition to being alert, dangerous and lucky, one of the other things you have to be in order to reach old age is able to, 'see through' the popular fads and foibles of the day. Let's face it: If you're unable to recognize, 'crap' when you either see or hear it, then, you're sure as Hell going to have to survive the consequences in order to successfully continue.

Sometimes people seem like lemmings to me; every now and then a large part of the herd, just, has to run to the edge of the cliff and jump off with the rest of the crowd! What can I say? I guess I've never been a jumper! Let the kids rant and rave; let the Kool-Aid drinkers maintain their (necessary) passionate obsession with keeping their fingers off the trigger. As for me, well, I've reached that age in life where I recognize that just because you've managed to keep your finger off the trigger for the past 10 years, DOESN'T mean that you're going to be able to do it (all the time!) for the next 10.

And, then, there's the problem with that idiot shooting on the line next to you. No matter how careful you, yourself, may be that imbecile with a loaded gun in his hand and an inane smile on his face is, still, going to do his level best to, 'ventilate' your body! You may believe me when I say that in a lifetime of shooting and handling firearms, I've had to duck more than once and often wondered to myself whether or not there's something: deep, dark, and unattractively secret lurking inside the heart of man that makes these firearm faux pas something more than accidental? I guess this is the real reason, 'Why' I think that most modern plastic pistol safety systems really, 'suck'; and the Kool-Aid drinkers continue to, absolutely, amaze me! :wink:
 

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An Interesting read for sure. However it does not reflect my experience. I am 43 years old with a moderate amount of experience with various handguns. Each design has it's pros and cons. In the early 80's I was into IPSC, shooting well over 10,000 rounds per year through a variety of match grade, tuned gov't models.

In the 90's after trying almost every autoloader on the market, (had an FFL and worked in a gunshop with an indoor range) I tried my first glock. Since that time I have owned over a dozen glocks of various models and calibers. My 21's will consistently outshoot Gold Cups and they don't require gunsmithing to insure 100% reliability. The model 17 and 19 just plain work. I even had an AWC Abraxus fitted to for one of my 17's.

If I were to purchase any over the counter handgun today and bet my life on it out of the box, it would be glock 21. After seeing thousands of rounds go through several of my glocks, I have the faith in the design and manufacture.

IS there any one type of handgun, that has not had a few examples of extreme failure? 1911,P35, Berretta 92....? :shock:
 

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Arc Angel, I actually took the time and read your entire post. Sounds like you don't like plastic pistols of any make and not just the Glocks.

Even though I've managed to survive into middle age, I don't consider myself an expert at anything. I also don't consider myself a lemming or Koolaid drinker either. But I am old enough to know my limitations. I'm not Dirty Harry or Rambo, so I don't really know how I'd react in an ultimate stress situation.

I bought my XD because it felt good in my hand and I liked its looks. But the deciding factor was the safety system. I bought it for CCW and I liked not having to remember a manual safety when my life is on the line. The gun is safe until I put my finger on the trigger and ready to go if I need it in a hurry.

I agree with your point about the moron in the lane next to you. I feel the same about most drivers on the road today.

And if you want to pistol whip somebody, get a Hi-Point. I think you could beat the crap out of someone with one of those handsome little pistols. And if you do break it over someone's skull, it doesn't cost much to replace it. :thumbsup:
 

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ExtremeDooty said:
And if you want to pistol whip somebody, get a Hi-Point. I think you could beat the crap out of someone with one of those handsome little pistols. And if you do break it over someone's skull, it doesn't cost much to replace it. :thumbsup:
I don't know if there is any uglier pistol on the market than a Hi Point, but those things work & work & work. When I was in the retail business, I sold more of those than just about all other pistols combined, & NEVER had one returned with a problem. I sold more off referals than anything else.

The ONLY problem I ever had with one was magazine related. Seems they designed the C9 with enough room to shove a 9th round in it, causing it to jam on the second round every time. Loaded with eight, worked just fine.
 

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I don't know if there is any uglier pistol on the market than a Hi Point, but those things work & work & work.
I have a C9 and I love it. Never had a problem with it. Best $100 I ever spent. It's taken a couple of years, but it's finally getting the credit for reliability that it deserves.

If there is an uglier pistol out there I haven't seen it yet. It is what it is, homely, inexpensive and reliable.

And it's still my first choice for pistol whipping.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
ExtremeDooty said:
Arc Angel, I actually took the time and read your entire post. Sounds like you don't like plastic pistols of any make and not just the Glocks.
Let's be a little more objective than this - shall we? If I didn't, 'like' plastic pistols I wouldn't own two of them, or carry one for SD most of the time. There is something I don't like, though: It's all the hype, misinformation, and poorly understood mechanical limitations that are an integral part of manufacturing and using pistols with plastic frames. Plastic isn't steel; it isn't, even, metal alloy; and it is not correct to expect any plastic framed pistol to perform in an identical fashion with the all-metal guns that you and I grew up with. 'Pistol whipping' is, only, one example of the inferiority of plastic to steel. I am no more of a, 'plastic pistol hater' than Dean Speir is a, 'Glock hater'; so, please, in all fairness don't attempt to tar me with that brush - OK!

Even though I've managed to survive into middle age, I don't consider myself an expert at anything. I also don't consider myself a lemming or Koolaid (sic) drinker either. But I am old enough to know my limitations. I'm not Dirty Harry or Rambo, so I don't really know how I'd react in an ultimate stress situation.
Yes, nor have I called you either a lemming or a Kool-Aid drinker. If you feel threatened by my remarks, I'd suggest that you take a, 'hard' look at yourself because, I assure you, there is nothing subjective in the characterizations on general human nature I've put forth, here. Quite frankly I consider myself to be an observer and student of human nature - not its master. Furthermore, I regret that you have reached middle age and consider yourself to be an expert on nothing - That's rather sad! I've long heard rumors about first-born children; (especially sons) after reflecting on your remark, I'm starting to suspect that these rumors are, in fact, true!

I bought my XD because it felt good in my hand and I liked its looks. But the deciding factor was the safety system. I bought it for CCW and I liked not having to remember a manual safety when my life is on the line. The gun is safe until I put my finger on the trigger and ready to go if I need it in a hurry.
Couldn't agree with you more! The Springfield XD Series is well-thought out, well-designed and built. Springfield Armory had the advantage of learning from Glock's mistakes when they came out with this pistol. The ONLY reason I purchased two Model G-21's instead of an XD is because I wanted hi-cap mags; and I couldn't get them with a Springfield. Good luck with your XD pistol. In my considered opinion you have made an excellent plastic pistol choice; the only caveat I have to offer is that you remember: It is, still, made of plastic - OK!

I agree with your point about the moron in the lane next to you. I feel the same about most drivers on the road today.
Yeah, I guess I do - too. There are few adequate defenses against human: stupidity, impatience, and recklessness. No doubt about it, auto commutation is a necessary, modern day, 'bitch'.

And if you want to pistol whip somebody, get a Hi-Point. I think you could beat the crap out of someone with one of those handsome little pistols. And if you do break it over someone's skull, it doesn't cost much to replace it. :thumbsup:
Thanks for the advice! I don't want to pistol whip or butt-stroke anyone. I've, already, seen more violence in life than I care to recall; and I would be delighted to retire into old age as expert as I'm able to be in those few things that continue to retain my interest and (hopefully) with those powers of observation which have always kept me in good stead reasonably intact. I hope you've enjoyed this thread; I, originally, wrote it to encourage others to think about plastic pistols - the strengths and weaknesses - rather than to get, 'blindsided' by popular plastic pistol myths, and misleading commercial advertising in the same way that I, once, did.

I haven't written anything, here, that I wouldn't have wanted someone else to point out to me BEFORE I bought my first plastic pistol. Unfortunately for me, I didn't discover Dean Speir's, 'The Gun Zone' until I was, already, a plastic pistol owner; and, to be honest, the first articles I read, there, scared the dickens out of me. I came, 'that close' to going out and dumping my Model 21's; then, reason kicked in and I decided to investigate this matter in greater detail. This investigation has been, at times and at certain websites, almost impossible to pursue; it has been fraught with episodes of: unreasonable passion, deliberate disinformation, and (As Dean likes to say) 'ad hominem' attacks.

My conscience is clean about what I've written, here; like I said; 'I wish somebody had offered me this information BEFORE I bought my first plastic pistol. It would have been to my advantage to know, 'What' to REALLY expect from my new plastic pistols. Hell, I know I don't want my epitaph to read, 'He Must Have Had His Finger On The Trigger!'; or, 'It Was The Ammunition That Put Him Here!'

Fair enough, my friend! :wink:
 

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Springfield Armory had the advantage of learning from Glock's mistakes when they came out with this pistol.
Just for the record, Springfield Armory did not "come out" with anything. The HS 2000 was designed and produced in Croatia and still is.

What Springfield did was recognize a very good product and secure the rights to market it in the USA. Since then they have really done the same thing Glock did- and launch variations on the same theme.

The ONLY reason I purchased two Model G-21's instead of an XD is because I wanted hi-cap mags;
To use the immortal words of Tommy Campbell, "Are you planning on missing a lot?"

:?
 

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Wow, you really put me in my place. :throwrock:

And you used so many words to do it. :sleeping:


I am both humbled and impressed. :bow:
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
:lol: Well, looky here, apparently I’ve hit a nerve; and, like a hunter having a good day, I’ve managed to flush - not one, but - two birds! So let me ask ya; ‘What do you think of my marksmanship, now, Charlie!’

While I admire you for coming to the defense of a friend, (Albeit one with a penchant for starting fights he can’t quite finish without resorting to, ‘kiddie antics’.) you should remember that you are the one with, ‘an image to protect’. It’s my opinion, you would better serve yourself by remaining tacitly silent upon your, ‘great man’ pedestal. By his own admission, E.D. is old enough to, ‘wipe his own butt’; you don’t need to lend a hand.

Nevertheless, your profound knowledge of gun minutiae genuinely amazes me! I read all the popular gun magazines; but, so far, none are anywhere near as informative as you. Oh, yeah, to answer your last question with another equally arcane quote; ‘No, a platoon!’* (Besides, I like punching holes in things.)

You two boys have a nice day, now! :wink:



*(Serpico)
 

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Arc --

My grandfather had a very good saying that is appropriate in this case "you will reap what you sow".

This is a public forum and anyone is allowed and encouraged to participate. You really need to be careful when hurling insults and innuendo's around. While CP is an adult and can certainly take up for and take care of himself, you need to remember there are many online here that consider him a friend and will quickly come to his defense and stand beside/behind him. (Myself included).

We here at Amback appreciate everyone's participation on the boards, but you need to remember that not everyone will agree with you and accept that. Read the FORUM POLICIES and you will see that this thread is digressing and skirting close to being in violation of those policies

Mike
 

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Arc Angel said:
.........I've long heard rumors about first-born children; (especially sons) after reflecting on your remark, I'm starting to suspect that these rumors are, in fact, true!

.........so, please, in all fairness don't attempt to tar me with that brush - OK!
Yes please, let's be careful about those brushes! :wink:

Dave
 

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Arc Angel-

I believe you've misinterpreted Charlie's post. It doesn't appear to me that he was coming to anyone's defense, so much as just correcting inaccuracies. As for the "missing a lot" remark, that opinion seems to be shared by a lot of us single stack guys.
 

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I apologize to all moderators and members if I have crossed any lines. I come here to have a good time and to talk about guns with like minded people. Blowhards and trouble makers usually expose themselves quickly and soon realize they are persona non grata. In the future I will leave it to the moderators to deal with them.
 
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