[SpecialEd]

While I was in the gun shop Saturday looking at the Smith 357's there was another customer (gun shop groupie, more likely) standing at the counter and he was spewing that he heard from guys "that were there in Nam" that in a pinch they could always shoot AK rounds in their M16's. And to top that he meant the AK47, not the AK74's. The girl behind the counter actually got out two boxes of cartridges to show him it was inpossible but he refused to accept it and she gave up and came over to me to talk Smith revolvers. Fat Frank is still convinced he is right.

Ed

 

[JRWnTN]

They're everywhere.

Once on a slow day at a range I frequent, a young fellow near me was having numerous misfires with a Glock in .45 ACP. The ejected rounds had headstamps from WWII. When asked where he'd gotten the ammo, he named the gun shop and said he was told it was "NATO" ammunition.

A couple seasoned club members overheard the conversation, gave him a polite lesson in world history, and recommended a more reputable source of ammunition.

 

[Charlie Petty]

And did they tell him that it had corrosive primers?

There is a bunch of surplus GI steel case .45 ball (EC 43 or 44) floating around right now. It is cheap but I don't think any of the ads mentioned "corrosive".

 

[SubSonicSquid]

I've been "Fat-Frank"ed a couple of times in my odyssey thus far. I talked about the guy that was telling me that the XDs were under a recall that apparently doesn't exist...

...I also had a guy hyping Glocks for me big-time...yet when I asked why he WASN'T carrying a Glock if he loved them so much, he looked sheepish and changed the subject. (I think he was carrying a SIG) Do Glocks have a higher margin on them or something???? I mean, I understand sales guys want to make as much money as possible, but DAMN I just want some INTEGRITY!!

Dave

 

[SpecialEd]

Yep, we certainly have to do our research BEFORE we set foot in the store. I can't think of a better place to get info than right here though.

I am also fortunate that I know a shooter at my local store that I trust. The problem is SHE only works on Saturdays and I like to go on weekday mornings when they aren't too busy and the Fat Franks aren't up yet.

She also happens to be the person that handles new-member training at my local club. AND, my local club just raised it's maximun FPS level from 1200 to 1400. That certainly opens things up a bit.

It's confusing at first but it is fun. Keep shopping, keep asking questions, definately keep putting your hands on the hardware and don't forget, information is as close as your PC

Ed

 

[SubSonicSquid]

It would be funny--if it weren't so frustrating--how these guys will spout this pablum as gospel...and will defend their ignorance to the death!! I guess now I just have to tell myself "I am proudly defending this guy's right to be an idiot!" :roll:

Dave

 

[JRWnTN]

And did they tell him that it had corrosive primers? .

Yes, and he offered to sell the rest of his ammo, cheap. No takers.

 

[Dean Speir]

While I was in the gun shop Saturday looking at the Smith 357's there was another customer (gun shop groupie, more likely) …. Fat Frank is still convinced he is right.

Now hold on justa second, there, fellas!

"Fat Frank" is my guy! No, I didn't make him up, but it's my story and I'm going to do my utmost to protect the integrity of the term as it seems to have entered into the lexicon a bit.

"Fat Frank" cannot be a customer… hell, it could be a renegade AOLer or gun-store commando or, as you noted, a gun shop groupie… but the original "Fat Frank" was one of the lead sales staff at Long Island's then-biggest firearms retailer/outdoors store. And that's why I developed such a fierce distaste for his type, a guy in a professional position who should know something about what he is telling people! It's a position of freaking responsibility, for the love of Peter Pi! (With authority, comes responsibility, damnit!)

Any yahoo in a greasy CAT diesel cap can wander in off the street to hang out at gun store counters and utter any sort of inanities he likes, and other customers may or may not give his blather any weight, and may even take the trouble to challenge him on some of his more egregious pronouncements… more than likely they'll just ignore him and dismiss his information.

But if the guy is behind the counter, it's a different matter all together… he's a firearms professional who is perceived to have more current and authoritative information, and customers are much more likely to give credence to his utterances, if not exactly hang on his every word!

And that's why I'm hell on the "Fat Franks" of the world!

And while Charlie may not entirely agree, I think that's one of the greatest positive potentials of the Internet, the spread of a higher quality of information. And I think it's why Charlie and I and some others work so hard at getting the good information out, and are so unyielding in our criticism of the Mw/aM* types who flit about from Forum to BB to Newsgroup disseminating questionable information posturing as "in the know."

So, pul-ease! Let us not corrupt the essence of "Fat Frank;" that's one I feel v-e-r-y strongly about!

*. - "Moron with a Modem." No names, please… there's one such Internet gadfly on this Forum. but we've been working for years to rehabilitate him, and we think he's coming around.

 

[SpecialEd]

Now hold on justa second, there, fellas!

My Bad! Sorry for the corruption of the term and YES, there is a big difference between a counter potato dishing out BS and a store clerk -- read professional -- dishing BS.

I will stick with "Gun Shop Groupie"or Counter Potato" until such time that I can come up with a better name or I am supplied with a better name. (What do you call them in your store Schmit?)

 

[Fernando Coelho]

for the love of Peter Pi!

Geez Dean, ya coulda picked a better person than that.

 

[Tim Burke]

I don't think he's forgiven him yet for that shrink-wrapped give-away knife.

 

[Guest]

We call the people who come into the store that don't know shite a very simple term... Idiots! :shock:

Me, I'm just your run of the mill Counter Monkey (or if you want to be politically correct - Retail Simian)... to be spicific Cercopithecus Ascanius Schmidti (Retail Monkey Schmit... look it up!). :lol:

 

[SpecialEd]

We call the people who come into the store that don't know shite a very simple term... Idiots! :shock:

Works for me! 8)

Me, I'm just your run of the mill Counter Monkey (or if you want to be politically correct - Retail Simian)... to be spicific Cercopithecus Ascanius Schmidti (Retail Monkey Schmit... look it up!). :lol:

Nah, I'm quite comfortable taking your word for it. :wink:

 

[MikeO]

Yes, I am. Coming around. Trying to anyway. Doing better all the time... :wink:

 

[Alarmed]

Hey fellows, I am new at this site, but I have seen alot of the names in the past. I like what I see on this forum & hope to become a contributing member instead of just a lurker.

I used to own a small gun shop in a semi rural town in Tennessee. The local police force, both depts, carried Glocks, in .357 sig, so I kept extra stuff in stock for those folks.

One rainy day, a fellow walks in & wants to buy a Glock 32, because that is what his neigborhood police officer carries. No sooner than those words come out of the customers mouth than one of the shop "groupies", for lack of a better word, interjects, because he knows everything.

"The best thing about the Glock in .357 Sig is you can pratice with .38 Special ammo."

I almost went ballistic. This was not the first time he had butted in & spread the manure thick, but this was beyond BS & just plain dangerous. I calmly reached behind the counter & pulled out a Glock 32 magazine & a box of .38 Special ammo & told him to show me how to load the rounds in the magazine.

He opened the box & took out a round, looked at it & then the magazine & then "I don't know how they were doing it, but the police dept. was doing it last week on the range, I saw them!"

He then meekly put both down, & red faced, walked out the door & didn't come back in for a couple weeks. He did apologize & didn't make a fool of himself anymore.

 

[Charlie Petty]

Don't be so critical of the poor soul... at least he knew you could shoot .38 Specials in a .357. That's a step up for many

 

[SpecialEd]

Hey fellows, I am new at this site, but I have seen alot of the names in the past. I like what I see on this forum & hope to become a contributing member instead of just a lurker.

Welcome aboard!

Ed

 

[Dean Speir]

He then meekly put both down, & red faced, walked out the door & didn't come back in for a couple weeks. He did apologize & didn't make a fool of himself anymore.

Well, if he actually learned something, then that was a good thing.

It would make an interesting sociological study… a sub-set of the Ol' Cracker Barrel/Hot Stove cultural phenomena wherein groups of two or more people gather in a communal setting so as to discuss subjects of a mutual interest, and the major element of the study would have to do with the social pressure to contribute something so as to not feel like a dunce or a complete newbie.

The firearms community has its own unique elements because, as Patty Rogers sez:

Most men are born believing they can do three things without training. Drive a car, have sex, and shoot guns. [Source: Training]

So, just as nature abhors a vacuum, one who attends a gun store bull session feels compelled to contribute an opinion or a "fact" to any subject introduced.

What's most interesting is that, over the past ten or so years, the Internet has provided this sort of cultural outlet for enthusiasts of just about any particular interest… and no where is this more prevailent than those interested in guns. First it was the Rec.Guns newsgroup and the Mailing Lists, and then the different fora, both dedicated (GlockTalk, 1911) and general (TFL, THR).

It is a subject of considerable fascination to both CeePee and m'self….

 

[BCG]

The ones that really bother me are the ones that say that they were driving their car, having sex, and shooting their gun and have the video to prove it.

I go back a long way (1980 or so) with PCs of one sort or another. I hate to admit it, but I answered an ad in one of the PC mags of the day and was a beta tester (charter member) of AOL. In those days, it was something like 29.95 for 3 hours a month and 12.95 an hour after that. I got 6 hours and paid half price for any time over that for being a beta tester. When AOL's first scandal broke about child pornography and I saw Steve Case's answer that they couldn't control it, I quit and went back to CompuServe. I then dumped CS when it got bought out by AOL. CompuServe, not being user-friendly, seemed to attract a better crowd.

Anyway. Over the years, I have seen a lot of forums. I participated in a few. The last was an airplane specific one. If you ever want to see BS spread as fact, then you should look at one of them. There are tons of OWTs about flying, which I can live with, but there is also a lot of plain wrong info posted that can get people killed or their certificate yanked. The one that pushed me over the edge concerned an IFR (Instrument Flight Rules) regulation that several members wanted to interpret to their tastes, but they were just plain wrong. I've never been back to that forum after that.

Windows 95 and AOL were the great equalizers for those who didn't speak geek. Sort of like Sam Colt's pistols in the Old West. The benefit for me from all of this is that the price of hardware went down considerably. If the price I have to pay is to run across some BS, so be it.

To be honest, I joined this forum after reading an article on ammo testing on TGZ. Two things struck me about that article. The first is the correct conclusion that if it goes bang after pulling the trigger and another round feeds, who cares what it does in cattle, jello, or European sheep. I'm not in the military or law enforcement, so my concern is not barricade penetration (try to explain in court why you emptied your weapon through a door at an unidentified target) or expansion. If it expands, then that's icing on the cake. The second was the phrase "diamond tip wood". I have heard of diamond cutters and/or wood (woody, etc.), but never the two of them combined in such a way. Anyone that can be that passioniate about something and then has the ability to describe the sensation in such a way to instantly bring to the reader that feeling has got my attention.

Since I have already shot my 1911 style pistol today (sub 1" groups at 50 yards :wink: ), I'll knock off a piece and head to work . Hopefully, I won't hit the side of a mountain :shock: when I activate the JATO on my 1990 Honda Civic Hatchback.

 

[Tim Burke]

The ones that really bother me are the ones that say that they were driving their car, having sex, and shooting their gun and have the video to prove it.

I don't have the video... it was on the State Trooper's dash-cam.