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Fatal Butt Shot

2853 Views 14 Replies 7 Participants Last post by  Shawn Dodson
1-shot killer

This 5.56mm round has all the stopping power you need - but you can't use it. Here's why:

By John G. Roos
Armed Forces Journal
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This is discredited on several levels, Orick, you goof, and you know it! So why are you trying to peddle that crud here?

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Thought some might like to have fun with it. I mean, gee whiz, this is the Armed Forces Journal, not any old gunzine! Ya never know where this stuff will pop up? :lol:
MikeO said:
Ya never know where this stuff will pop up? :lol:
There's never any doubt about "where" when you're loose!

The writer sold virtually the identical story to the New York Times, #1, and, #2, the claims for the RBCD/Le Mas are absurd on their face. I mean, "dual misssion capable?!?"

On top of that the guy, Bulmer, who's huckstering the whole deal, has alleged certain background and access which is a complete fictive… it looks like the closest he got to anything was as a pilot for FedEx.

I passed the NYT story onto a couple of gunzine chums last weekend, and regarding the "fatal butt shot" aspect, Frank James observed:
One shot does not prove anything. I shot a fox one time at 113 paces with a Model 27 .357 Magnum and a heavy cast Keith load. He was on the run and I dropped on the spot; the next day I shot another at 10 paces and if a guy with a 12 gauge hadn't been standing next to me, he would have been gone. And I shot the 2nd one straight through the brisket.
I won't bother with any of the other comments I received, but there's a lot of crud at work here, and if you'd've ever bothered to develop any of those critical thinking skills that Charlie and I have encouraged you to work on over the past dozen years, there'd be a lot less of these jack jobs in a paper sack you so dearly love to toss onto an Internet forum like a flaming blivet on someone's doorstep on Halloween!

Go now and sin no more, Gawddamnit!
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I just don't get it... obviously.

This was interesting, and what people have to say about it and why is even more interesting. Different forums have different takes on it. Wanted to see what the people here had to say about it, if anything. Plenty have fallen for it, and all it implies, hook, line and sinker. Why they should not is more important than ignoring it?

They can have fun w it, or just ignore it and it will bzzzzz away...
This found it's way onto the Tactical Forums, too. I reviewed the Lightfighter thread from a link, now defunct, on TF. I didn't think it went round & round on Lightfighter. In fact, I was astounded that every claim made about this ammo was systematically shot down.
(Stolen from another forum....)

I wonder if it will work better if you put a drop of Miltec on it? :wink:
Richard Jefferies said:
(Stolen from another forum....)

I wonder if it will work better if you put a drop of Miltec on it? :wink:
Well done, Richard. I remarked to Dean the other day that the similarities between the Militec and RBCD stories are too strong to ignore.
LIProgun said:
…the similarities between the Militec and RBCD stories are too strong to ignore.
And I've been pondering that, developing the premise that in this Âge d'Internet, this is a potentially viable method of getting the word out about one's product.

I remember about 14-15 years back when the Pine Barrens Range first went "live," and the security at the adjoining aerodrome was contracted out to some outfit like Wackenhut, and a young "rent-a-cop" used to race around the perimeters so he could hang out around my shooting position between 1200 and 1415 while the sun glint and radar made accurate chronography a less than viable proposition. That "window of frustration" was when I allowed extended discourse about whatever chums and gunzine groupies wanted to ask or chat… cause when I was able to collect data, I really couldn't take the time to BS with anyone.

One day we got talking about exotics in general and MagSafe in particular, and I related the anecdotal (and in my view dubious in extremis) story Joe Zambone had told me about one of his very satisfied customers who'd been deer-hunting in Oregon with a .45 WinMag and some of Joe's hand-crafted Mach II specialty rounds (it doesn't matter which, 'cause back then Joe changed the formulation on an almost weekly basis as he envisioned newer and "better" ballistic necromancy with virtually every sleep cycle). He said that the customer told him… note the unusual-for-Joe second person deniability!… that he shot the deer in the neck and the entire head came off. I had developed this little patter about how I imagined this whole scenario transpiring to the accompanying strains of Randy Newman's positively heroic passage from The Natural when Roy Hobbs hits his dramatic light-stanchion-busting home run, and we all got a good laugh… except for young Mister Wackenhut. My long time shooting partner Cruthers sidled over to me and whispered "Jay-SUS!, look at the kid in uniform, willya?!"

I glanced over at the fellow and his was glassy-eyed and slack-jawed, with a little rivulet of spittle at one corner of his mouth.

A week or so later Joe called to thank me for the referral from my area… it seemed that someone from up the Island a bit had called and all but gone tap for several hundred dollars worth of MagSafe rounds in 9 X 19mm… and it was the very same security guard, a proud owner of a commercial Model 92F/SB which he referred to as an "M9," of course.

Unfortunately Wackenhut let him go shortly thereafter due to his spending more time hanging out at the range than making his patrols, but it was a revelatory episode for me as I began to realize just how much of a "Holy Grail" was the quest for a magic handgun bullet… no recurring training and regular practice required.

I wonder how much civilian sales… which supposedly Le Mas discourages… of the RBCD rounds have appreciated after the AFJ and NYT articles about the "fatal butt-shot" appeared!?

Those "puff pieces" aren't likely to help that much in getting RBCD re-evaluated by the military, or in the earlier instance, Militec, adopted… but I'm betting that some Congressional critters have looked into the matters, spurred on by constituents' calls!
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Thanks guys. Thats what I wanted to seee; the more places that spin is put on this, the better. But it needs to come from reliable/reputable sources, and that sure ain't me!

Seems the military trusts Dr. Roberts and the tests he has already done and feel no need to waste our money beating that dead horse no matter what temperature the carcass is.

People have jumped to erroneous conclusions to anomalous events; happens to the best, and the rest of us, all the time.

Why the AFJ editor put the spin on the article he did still makes me wonder where he is coming from, why he seems to have a grudge against the military-industrial complex that is a bit much more than the normal wariness or healthy cynicism one might expect?
DeanSpeir said:
he shot the deer in the neck and the entire head came off.
Doesn't the taxidermist give you a discount when this happens?

I saw that comment on THR. I was wondering if it was too subtle for the internet.
Tim Burke said:
DeanSpeir said:
he shot the deer in the neck and the entire head came off.
Doesn't the taxidermist give you a discount when this happens?

I saw that comment on THR. I was wondering if it was too subtle for the internet.
LOL at the first comment--and I'd say "Yes" to the second comment, with the exception of THIS august crowd.
From Test Confirms Inferior Bullet by Anthony F. Milavic, a retired Marine Corps major who writes frequently on military firearms and ammunition issues.
The 5.56mm Le Mas (AKA: RBCD) ammunition "demonstrated inadequate penetration, small fracture diameter, and shorter fracture lengths at all tested ranges. It is noted, based upon their configuration, that these rounds would be very unlikely to pass the legal review necessary to allow usage by the U. S. Military."
The "tests" the Major is referencing somes from the 1 September 2004 Interim Report, Engineering Study ES-1A-9001, Soft Target Terminal Ballistics Evaluation Of The M855 5.56mm Projectile, from U. S. Army ARDEC, AETC. Ballistics gelatin tests of various cartridges conducted and the results published.
The Smart Bullet

The frangible APLP ammo will bore through steel and other hard targets but will not pass through a human torso, an eight-inch-thick block of artist's clay or even several layers of drywall. Instead of passing through a body, it shatters, creating "untreatable wounds."
This reminds me of the guy who was of the opinion that the vacuum thermos bottle was the greatest invention of all time.

When asked why he thought so, he said it was "because it keeps hot things hot and cold things cold."

When asked why he thought that was such a big deal, he responded "How do it know?"

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