[MotorcycleWriter]

New member looking for info and advice on the M1 Carbine but it looks like this forum is not very active. I can think of several reasons why...

 

[csmkersh]

1. Most of us are old farts.

2. We've been doing this several decades under several board names and management - some good, most not.

3. Hang on and one of the carbine guys will show up and help.

 

[bearcat6]

I'm no expert but I have some knowledge of the carbine. What do you want to know?

 

[stand watie]

MotorcycleWriter,

FIRST. WELCOME ABOARD!!!

You have found the BEST gun forum on the WorldWideWIERD.

There are lots of REAL experts here & you will receive the help that you desire.
(I'm an expert on NOTHING.)

yours, sw

 

[MotorcycleWriter]

Thanks guys! Glad to know the experts are still out there.

I'm an old fart, too. Veteran. Lifelong 2nd Amendment supporter and gun owner. Always been a huge fan of the carbine. Picked one up some years ago before they got expensive. A mint 1944 Inland. The bolt didn't have a mark on it. Perfect stock with infantry cartouche. I put the first scuffs on the bolt but haven't shot it a whole lot.

I'm older now and my eyesight ain't what it used to be. I'd like to put a red dot reflex sight on it. Don't crucify me. I'm never going to sell it. And I'm not going to drill it. But I'd like to be able to shoot it more effectively and enjoyably without resorting so much to the progressive lenses in my glasses to do what my eyes used to.

Are there any good mounts out there? I don't want to put a Picatinny rail where the handguard is supposed to be. You'd have to re-zero every time you cleaned the thing. It also unbalances the rifle. I'd rather install a simple mount in the rear dovetail. I've come across a few options but am unimpressed. Is there anything out there that fits the bill?

Thanks!

 

[GunGeek]

Sir,

Yes, there is a great way to mount a red dot scope without any perfect mofification to your Carbine. The Ultimak mount: M1 .30 Carbine Scope Mount, "Scout" Mount, Folding Stock, Vented Handguard, Optics

It's a CNC milled replacement for your handguard. It attaches with two loops under your barre. One loop will require some inletting of the scope. I just used one loop and tightened the screws very tight and it worked fine for me.

I'm a traditionalist, I only tested the mount for a magazine article, but I found it to be very well made and well thought out.

When using a red dot with this mount, cheek weld does become an issue. Get a red dot that will mount as low as possible and you'll be fine.

 

[MotorcycleWriter]

That rail looks like a well-made piece of kit. Still not a fan of long eye-relief optical sights. And I do love that quaint wooden hand-guard. Just something about it.

I did come across this and have gone back and forth with the manufacturer. Seems like, perhaps, a better made version of some of the other ones that I've run across that received less than stellar reviews.

S & K Scope Mounts Home Page - rifle scope, scope mounts, Insta-Mount, SKulptured Mounts

Haven't experimented with mounting reflex sights but this seems like a nice, flat surface to work with. Not particularly cheap, but I'm not looking for cheap.

 

[GunGeek]

Since red dots don't really have "eye relief", I found when mounted right up against the receiver, it all worked out very well for me. But your mileage may vary.

 

[dfariswheel]

There are several M1 Carbine scope mounts that are no-gunsmithing designs that either fit into the rear sight dovetail after the rear sight is removed, OR lock onto the rear sight base itself.

A fast search turned up these:

Probably the best is the original S&K mount. It's been around a long time.
The offer an S&K and Weaver type:

S & K Scope Mounts Home Page - rifle scope, scope mounts, Insta-Mount, SKulptured Mounts
Prices....
S & K Scope Mounts Home Page - rifle scope, scope mounts, Insta-Mount, SKulptured Mounts

M1Carbine Scope Mounts

https://www.ebay.com/itm/M1-Carbine...hash=item4d3ad86648:m:mqhkPjbNwy-AnMb6S5MhIjQ

https://www.amazon.com/VERY100-Alum...196928&sr=8-2&keywords=m1+carbine+scope+mount

https://www.amazon.com/M1-Carbine-S...196928&sr=8-6&keywords=m1+carbine+scope+mount

 

[MotorcycleWriter]

Yeah, I'm thinking about the S&K mount. If I do this. I might be better off just keeping the Carbine bone stock and getting a Mini-14. I've been wanting one anyway and it comes drilled and tapped for external mounts. Ammo is more abundant. It's more accurate. But... I do like the little carbine.

 

[William R. Moore]

I used an S&K mount on a 1917 Enfield. It walked under recoil until I cleaned everything up, re-bore sighted it with the reticle centered and epoxied the mount into place. On the other hand, the carbine doesn't recoil like the '06. The mount that replaces the hand guard is probably the way to go.

Unless they've changed, the Mini is NOT drilled & tapped, but uses proprietary-but widely available- rings.

 

[csmkersh]

It's more accurate. But... I do like the little carbine.

But keep in mind why the carbine was first fielded; it was to replace the .45 which many never learned to shoot well. It's a great little gun for what it was intended.

 

[shep854]

Yep. The original 'Personal Defense Weapon', also considered by some to be the first assault rifle.
----
One reason the site seems to have such low activity is that members have this habit of not posting unless they have something sensible and informative to post.

 

[stand watie]

shep854; MotorcycleWriter; All,

Unlike a lot of sites on the www, there's not a lot of needless chatter here. nd that is a GOOD THING, imo.

yours, sw

 

[shep854]

shep854; MotorcycleWriter; All,

Unlike a lot of sites on the www, there's not a lot of needless chatter here. nd that is a GOOD THING, imo.

yours, sw

Abso-LUTE-ly! :thumbsup:

 

[GunGeek]

Yep. The original 'Personal Defense Weapon', also considered by some to be the first assault rifle.
----
One reason the site seems to have such low activity is that members have this habit of not posting unless they have something sensible and informative to post.

While many "experts" disagree with me, I think the M2 was the first "assault rifle".

There is nothing SMG about the rifle, and the cartridge is pretty darned borderline as a "pistol" cartridge. It's funny how the .30 Carbine gets called a "pistol" cartridge, when so very few "pistols" were ever designed for that round. Yet the .44/40 & .38/40 are always accepted as "rifle" rounds; regardless of the fact they were designed specifically for rifles and revolvers as well as the rifles they were originally intended for. Winchester intended that versatility. That was never the intention with the .30 Carbine round.

We know the full story of the creation of the .30 Carbine, and we know it was never intended to potentially double as a pistol round. It was specifically designed as a CARBINE round from the word go. The fact that its on the low end of the power spectrum is rather insignificant to me (but clearly means a lot to others). The competitors who designed their carbine submissions as straight blow back weapons had many issues because the cartridge wasn't blow-back friendly, and bolt weights always had to be such that the weapons were too heavy.

Someone remind me, what other SMG's made before 1945 used a gas action, locked breech, rather than straight blow back. Yeah, I can't recall either.

All that said, I won't deny that those who say the .30 Carbine is a "pistol" round do have some valid points. It's a in-between round that blurs the lines a bit.

But to me, the M2 will always be the first assault rifle whether we intended it to be or not.

 

[stand watie]

GunGeek,

The so-called M2A1 (as assembled at some CONUS/OCONUS depots) certainly qualifies as a SMG, imo.

As does the "paratrooper model" of the Johnson MMJ in .22 Spitfire.
(We had a couple of those in the armory when we were "away down south" but had NO ammo for them.)

yours, sw.

 

[dfariswheel]

The original spec for the M1 Carbine was to be a select fire weapon, with possibly a 30 or even 50 round magazine.

For various reasons it was not made as a full-auto select fire weapon until 1944, and issue didn't start until late 44-45, with very few making it into combat until near the end in the Pacific.
That means the German MP44/Stg44 beat it into issue and was the first true assault weapon as we understand an assault weapon.

The M1 Carbine round was never a pistol cartridge as the military found out when they tried to have the S&W Victory Model revolver chambered in M1 Carbine for use by paratroops.
The incredible muzzle blast put a stop to that.
The M1 Carbine cartridge was a carbine round from the get-go.

In general, a SMG is considered to be a short, stocked weapon chambered in a true pistol cartridge.

In the study of firearms, you soon understand that trying to draw a hard line on something is usually almost impossible.
Subjects like what was the first repeating rifle, or first SMG, or first revolver are impossible to completely pin down, because in some patent application or museum is always something much earlier then what you think you have settled.

 

[shep854]

Yep. Low end of 'rifle' performance, but still a rifle.
There were only two handguns, right? The Ruger revolver and an Automag?

 

[stand watie]

shep854,

IVER JOHNSON once made one in that caliber. = It looked like a "sawed-off carbine".

Btw, I once traded for a Blackhawk in .30 carbine but didn't keep it long. = IF you missed a live target, you could always burn it to death with the muzzle flash

yours, sw