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Sir,

Yes, there is a great way to mount a red dot scope without any perfect mofification to your Carbine. The Ultimak mount: M1 .30 Carbine Scope Mount, "Scout" Mount, Folding Stock, Vented Handguard, Optics

It's a CNC milled replacement for your handguard. It attaches with two loops under your barre. One loop will require some inletting of the scope. I just used one loop and tightened the screws very tight and it worked fine for me.

I'm a traditionalist, I only tested the mount for a magazine article, but I found it to be very well made and well thought out.

When using a red dot with this mount, cheek weld does become an issue. Get a red dot that will mount as low as possible and you'll be fine.
 

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Since red dots don't really have "eye relief", I found when mounted right up against the receiver, it all worked out very well for me. But your mileage may vary.
 

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Yep. The original 'Personal Defense Weapon', also considered by some to be the first assault rifle.
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One reason the site seems to have such low activity is that members have this habit of not posting unless they have something sensible and informative to post. ;)
While many "experts" disagree with me, I think the M2 was the first "assault rifle".

There is nothing SMG about the rifle, and the cartridge is pretty darned borderline as a "pistol" cartridge. It's funny how the .30 Carbine gets called a "pistol" cartridge, when so very few "pistols" were ever designed for that round. Yet the .44/40 & .38/40 are always accepted as "rifle" rounds; regardless of the fact they were designed specifically for rifles and revolvers as well as the rifles they were originally intended for. Winchester intended that versatility. That was never the intention with the .30 Carbine round.

We know the full story of the creation of the .30 Carbine, and we know it was never intended to potentially double as a pistol round. It was specifically designed as a CARBINE round from the word go. The fact that its on the low end of the power spectrum is rather insignificant to me (but clearly means a lot to others). The competitors who designed their carbine submissions as straight blow back weapons had many issues because the cartridge wasn't blow-back friendly, and bolt weights always had to be such that the weapons were too heavy.

Someone remind me, what other SMG's made before 1945 used a gas action, locked breech, rather than straight blow back. Yeah, I can't recall either.

All that said, I won't deny that those who say the .30 Carbine is a "pistol" round do have some valid points. It's a in-between round that blurs the lines a bit.

But to me, the M2 will always be the first assault rifle whether we intended it to be or not.
 

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shep854,

I wonder if the Kimber ,30 cal. might actually have worked with a modification of the design to work similar to the Astra 400, i.e., with a BIG coil spring wrapped around the barrel, to retard that slide slamming back so hard.???

yours, sw
SW,

The design of the .30 Carbine cartridge just makes it very unfriendly to blowback operation. There are some similarities between the .30 Carbine and 9mm. Both are fairly high pressure (9mm @ 35k PSI, .30 @ 40k PSI), and both have tapered cases. Yet, the 9mm works perfectly in a blowback firearm, while no one seems to have mastered the .30 carbine in a blowback weapon. Two prototype rifles for the M1 Carbine program were blowback, and both had issues with blown cases, and were eliminated from the competition.

The difference is, the higher chamber pressure of the .30 carbine coupled with a much more pronounced case taper made the cartridge essentially unfit for straight blowback operation. The taper of the .30 Carbine causes a great deal of backward thrust on the bolt, and M1 Carbines are known for breaking bolt lugs. In fact, an M1 Carbine that has a nice clean chamber will function pretty much 100% of the time without an extractor; which clearly demonstrates that the case really doesn't want to grip the chamber walls like the 9mm does.

The spring weight of the Astra isn't what makes the 1921 series pistols work; it's the chamber design. The 9mm P and 9mm Largo both have essentially the same case taper, and both will work in the Astra 1921 series pistols. I'm sure you have also seen Astra 1921's & 400's that are marked 9mm/38, and will work with 9mm L or .38 auto. This is where the chamber design comes into play. While the case is tapered, the chambers of the 1921 series pistols is nearly straight. So when the cartridge goes off, the brass expands to nearly a straight wall (not completely straight), giving the brass that much needed grip on the chamber to hold the breech closed long enough for chamber pressures to drop to a safe opening level.

With blow back operated firearms, the spring plays very close to NO role in lock time. Yeah, it does affect lock time, but it will never affect it anywhere near enough to turn an unsafe firearm into a safe one. So the "secret" of the Astra 1921/400/600 is the chamber, not the spring. So the reason for the massive spring on the 1921 series pistols was actually to help tame recoil. I don't know if you ever shot one, but a 600 in 9mm P recoils about the same or more than my LW Commander in .45 ACP. It's a very sharp, and not too pleasant recoil impulse.

The Kimball took the Astra idea and expanded (no pun intended) on it, and came up with the chamber idea they had. It was a clever idea, just didn't work.
 

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SW,

I have a little bit of a thing for Spanish handguns, and I find the “tubular slide” Astra’s very interesting. Their way of working certainly was something different. Its one of those guns that works well, but no one is standing in line to copy the idea or design.

I currently have a 600 and a 3000 and I enjoy them both. The tubular slide Astra’s were made exceptionally well. Take a close look at them and you’ll find very few machine marks anywhere. The finish is slow rust bluing, and the fit of the slide to the frames would make Armand Swenson proud. The ergonomics of the 1921 series pistols is way better than it looks in a photo. They really fit the hand well, and they point very well also. And yeah recoil is remarkably sharp for a little ole 9mm, but the pistols are tack drivers. By tack driver, what I mean is… Most 1921’s, 400’s, 600’s I have shot would hold their own against a Sig 210. Most have really bad triggers, but that can be fixed. For a pistol designed and made in 1921, it was one of the more reliable non-Browning pistols in existence in those days. Let’s not forget, it beat out the mostly 1911 copy Star 1920. And the Star 1920/1921 pistols weren’t poorly built Colt knock off’s; they were well made pistols.

When I think of auto pistols in the 1920’s, you could do a LOT worse than an Astra. Lugers may be pretty, but if I’m going to war, I’ll take the Astra over Luger or the P-38; it’s more reliable than either of those.

I’ve thought about he Astra as a cop’s gun. The 9mm Largo model 400’s would be “the next best thing” to a Colt .38 Super. And given that older Supers were rather erratic when it came to accuracy, the 400 would give you first rate accuracy, very good reliability, and often the Astra’s could be had pretty cheap in comparison to a Colt.
 

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The P38 was a big improvement over the P08, but it was far from perfect itself. But at least it was reliable and could generally be counted on to go bang for as many times as you carried ammo/magazines on you. Can't say that about the P08. The P08 needed attention by someone who truly understood the design to keep it running. It was mostly about springs, most important of which was the magazine spring. The toggle action cycles crazy fast, and you need a VERY stiff magazine spring to advance the next round in time.

P38's broke slides and locking blocks. Those who knew the design weren't surprised at all with the US Military encountered broken locking blocks in the M9. Beretta got it all straightened out, but it wasn't pretty.
 
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