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Discussion Starter #1
I think it's REALLY short sighted of conservatives to be okay with this sort of surpeme court ruling...the one that says LE can walk onto your private property to plant a tracking device on your vehicle.

Here's one time I find myself cheering the ACLU on (dear Lord, did I just say that?).

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2010/1 ... ng-device/

Now you can feel this way or that on this specific case. Most on the Right consider profiling a legitimate law enforcement tool, and I tend to agree with that until things get out of hand (which admittedly is a fine line). But I wonder if the Right would be okay if the FBI were profiling domestic terrorists, by say...planting survelience equipment on OUR cars for participating on a "Right-Wing gun forum". Honestly, that IS profiling, Timothy McVeigh remains THE domestic terrorist and he was a member of the Prodigy Shooting Sports Bulletin Board...I remember trading posts with the guy.
 

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Re: I'm disturbed the Right isn't offended by this new rulin

Who said I was OK with this?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Re: I'm disturbed the Right isn't offended by this new rulin

I never said YOU were okay with this, but I've found this to be a really strange thing.

On several online forums, I've found that there are many on the right that are in support of this, even though it was upheld by the 9th Circuit. A trip to Daily Kos will show you that the left is really bent out of shape over this, and the ACLU is looking for a fight…again, the very leftist, 9th Circuit upheld this ruling.

The problem I have with Republicans and Democrats is the lack of consistency and integrity. This is CLEARLY a personal liberty and privacy issue. But depending on how it's being enforced, determines who will support or oppose it.

If someone on the right is offended by this, then where was that voice when Bush was illegally wiretapping American citizens? See what I mean?

Conversely, those on the left who were yelling and screaming when we were giving amnesty to the Telcom's over the Bush era illegal wiretapping; are completely okay with the current Obama Admin legislation to expand the government's abilities to tap both voice and data communications; without a warrant (which by the way, Republicans have suddenly rememberd that wire taps without a warrant is wrong now that Obama is in the driver's seat).

Am I the only guy who sees the madness in all of this?

Rather than Right or Left, we as Americans should be viewing things through the eyes of, is something Libertarian or Authoritarian; do that and our two parties will begin to exhibit something I've never once seen in our political system; integrity.

This is an issue that Democrats and Republicans should be agreeing on. But both are so wrapped up in their partisan rhetoric that they split hairs and decide that it's okay to be authoritarian if "we're" they one's doing it…we can be trusted, the other side is evil.

This is the kind of crap that is wrecking this nation.
 
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Re: I'm disturbed the Right isn't offended by this new rulin

Perhaps the right is O.K. with it because the left has their panties in a wad over it. :D
 

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Re: I'm disturbed the Right isn't offended by this new rulin

Kevin Gibson said:
I think it's REALLY short sighted of conservatives to be okay with this sort of surpeme court ruling...the one that says LE can walk onto your private property to plant a tracking device on your vehicle.
Would anyone be AS upset if the LE puts the tracking device on your vehicle while it's parked in a public place, such as on the street or in a Walmart parking lot?
 

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Re: I'm disturbed the Right isn't offended by this new rulin

IIRC the ruling has a lot to do with what kind of reasonable expectation of privacy one has. A car left in a driveway exposed to passersby is said to have very little; it is in situations such as this where the G-men have the greatest leeway in planting their spooky devices.
If a car is garaged and the door down, there is expectation of privacy; a warrant would be required. It's sort of similar in theory to if a cop stops and looks in your car window and sees somethingillegal. Then, it's in "plain sight;" you're S.O.L.
Put a coat over it and the matter changes. Lock it in the trunk and the PC goes up -- "probable cause."
As to Bush's "illegal wiretapping of Americans" just what was that? The wiretapping of international phone calls from one terrorist to another? IIRC that's what the hoopla was about.
We conducted intelligence gathering in all wars prior to this without getting the operatives excessively bound up with legalities. We were tapping the **** out of everything suspected to be an enemy agent in WW2.
Now, we're fighting a war against sociopathic thugs who amputate heads of living people and we want to play "book 'em, Danno" :twisted: .

Don't get me wrong .... I don't really like this ruling, and of course, I'm really convinced the guys on my side will do it right while I'm equally sure Obama's boys will have me strafed by black helicopters if I don't wear my tinfoil hat. :roll: IMHO, if the car is parked on a public road it might be considered fair game. But if accessing it requires trespass onto private property then a warrant ought to be required.

Kevin, the truth is we live in a screwed up country and both parties have had a fair share of guilt in getting us here. On another forum I got into a controversy about government spending and the long and short is that since the mid 1930s govt. spending (in adjusted for inflation dollars) has gone up in a manner best described as a hyperbola. And despite the attempts of some to claim republican presidents have been better, depending on how you approach the problem, that really isn't so. Just about every president has spent more than his predecessor. Reagan is remembered fondly for his supposed love for small government but even that isn't strictly true; he spent more than his successor. The thing is he increased it less on a percentile basis than some earlier presidents, and, somewhat more interestingly, he was honest about what he'd done. I specifically remember him addressing the nation and openly stating he hadn't decreased the size of government, but simply reduced it's rate of growth.
The best I'm hoping for as we vote tomorrow is we wind up with a mix of Rs and Ds that can get kongress tied up in eternal gridlock -- that seems the best way of thwarting the desire of many inside the beltway of chewing away at our remaining Constitutional rights.
 

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Re: I'm disturbed the Right isn't offended by this new rulin

The best I'm hoping for as we vote tomorrow is we wind up with a mix of Rs and Ds that can get kongress tied up in eternal gridlock -- that seems the best way of thwarting the desire of many inside the beltway of chewing away at our remaining Constitutional rights

That says it best for tomorrow thier Tommy and I tried to convey that message to one and the response "what does it frigg'in matter we are going to a Fascist state".My intention was to the fella was give the new guys a try if anything if nothing happens my liberities remain static for the time being.Now back to the discussion at hand :ehsmile:
 

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Re: I'm disturbed the Right isn't offended by this new rulin

TommyGunn said:
...[G]overnment spending...since the mid 1930s...has gone up in a manner best described as a hyperbola...[emphasis added]
I think it's more like an asymptotic curve.
It started out low and slow, and then, all of a sudden, it shot straight upwards to infinity.
 

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Re: I'm disturbed the Right isn't offended by this new rulin

Didn't a number of us already beat up on this subjet in another thread?

I think the keys to the decision were the reasonable expectation of privacy, as already noted, and that the device was placed the night before. In other words, it was a targeted surveilance triggered by behavior patterns previously established, not a fishing expedition.
 

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Re: I'm disturbed the Right isn't offended by this new rulin

Steve M1911A1 said:
TommyGunn said:
...[G]overnment spending...since the mid 1930s...has gone up in a manner best described as a hyperbola...[emphasis added]
I think it's more like an asymptotic curve.
It started out low and slow, and then, all of a sudden, it shot straight upwards to infinity.
I will accept asymptotic.
I will also accept horrific ...... :lol: :roll: :wink: :wink:

I was merely trying to use the word as a sort of general description, not a specific mathematical expression. :mrgreen:
 

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Re: I'm disturbed the Right isn't offended by this new rulin

Ah, so you were using it as literal hyperbole. :lol:
 

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Re: I'm disturbed the Right isn't offended by this new rulin

Very punny, Steve ... very punny! :lol: :roll:
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Re: I'm disturbed the Right isn't offended by this new rulin

TommyGunn said:
The best I'm hoping for as we vote tomorrow is we wind up with a mix of Rs and Ds that can get kongress tied up in eternal gridlock -- that seems the best way of thwarting the desire of many inside the beltway of chewing away at our remaining Constitutional rights.
Until we change this R vs. D thing, that's probably the best we could hope for. American's should take the Hippocratic Oath "Fist do no harm." Tie them up in gridlock and it's difficult for them to do harm.
 

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Re: I'm disturbed the Right isn't offended by this new rulin

Kevin Gibson said:
"Fist do no harm."
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Freudian Typo of the Week! :thumbsup:
 
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