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Incident in Dunbarton

3856 Views 25 Replies 13 Participants Last post by  Dean Speir, 
L
One of Mas' students apparently could have used a little more inspiration.

Attorney accidentally shoots self in class

http://www.theunionleader.com/articles_ ... icle=42427
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D
Uh oh… And she's an attorney!
Dean was wielding a 10mm Glock Model 29 automatic handgun, which is popular with both men and women, according to Lethal Force shooting instructor Massad Ayoob. She was among five students involved in a five-day firearms course.

Ayoob described Dean as a "very skillful and confident gun handler." He said she was using a holster that was not right for the gun and said that it was not immediately obvious to the instructor prior to the accident.
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Given that it's a newspaper report (usual veracity disclaimer), several points suggest themselves:
  1. With only five students, "the instructor" was undoubtedly Mas.[/*:17fbgura]
  2. "…a holster that was not right for the gun," identified as a Glock, would likely be an Uncle Mike's, or something similar with one of those peripatetic retention snap straps.[/*:17fbgura]
  3. I never knew that the "Glock Model 29 automatic handgun … is popular with both men and women." I shall inform Mark Gibson immediately.[/*:17fbgura]
  4. I fearlessly predict that this event will be the subject of at least two columns in gunzines on the newsstand before Christmas.[/*:17fbgura]
Enough musings….
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Sarge
"It's the AMMO, I tell ya! It makes Glocks AD..."

"... and I can PROVE it- because they never AD without ammo in them." :roll:

So, what flavor would we all like- grape, lemon-lime, or cherry?
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Tim Burke
Well, there goes the streak. I recall him saying in '98 that no one had ever been shot in one of his classes. According to LFI's on-line schedule, this would have been Day 1 of LFI-3.
The name of the shooter (shootee?) sounds familiar, but I can't place her.
Normally I'd make a lawyer joke, but in deference to Rob, I'll refrain.
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Snake45
Could this AD be a side effect of Kool-Aid poisoning?

In the LFI-1 class I assisted with in May, there were several Glockers--one of them a woman (not this one)--who were a bit obnoxious about their chosen weapon, and who ribbed the 1911 shooters about their "antiques." And not always good-naturedly, either. They really seemed to have an air of self-righteous superiority about them at times. (I believe the top shooter in the class was a state trooper using his issue .40 Beretta--it might even have been DAO.)

When I took LFI-1 in 1988, I retuned home to read in the Washington Post (yes, I read the Post but I consider it enemy propaganda) that a DC cop's two-year old daughter had managed to shoot herself fatally with Daddy's brand-new Glock while he was in the shower after a shift. I tried hard to think of any other kind of pistol a 2YO would have been able to do that with (DC police had just switched from revolver, IIRC) and couldn't think of one. And it doesn't help that the things look like water pistols to start with. (My kid actually has a clear plastic watergun Glock that I'm sure if I painted it black, it could get up both arrested).

At the May LFI class, Mas related a number (and it wasn't a small number, either) of stories about cops who had managed to emasulate themselves with Glocks. I don't recall that being a sale point in their advertising--unless such a state is considered under the term "perfection." (Note to self: Never buy a gun from a guy named "Gaston.")
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SpecialEd
I can see the adds already, Colt's pony and a Glock Gelding! :twisted:
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J
Snake45 said:
When I took LFI-1 in 1988, I retuned home to read in the Washington Post (yes, I read the Post but I consider it enemy propaganda) that a DC cop's two-year old daughter had managed to shoot herself fatally with Daddy's brand-new Glock while he was in the shower after a shift.
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In 1998, the Washington Post published an article on MPDC's history of using the Glock, reporting 120 accidental discharges. One occurred before the pistols were actually issued:

"Officer Adam K. Schutz was helping to test and clean the first shipment of guns when he shot himself in the fingers.
"It bit me," said Schutz, who was left with permanent damage to a finger on his left hand. "I was moving my hand to lower the slide and it jumped forward. I had assumed the gun was unloaded."

Ayoob is quoted in the article: "You don't want your 16-year-old kid out of driver's ed driving a Corvette Stingray. The Glock is like a Corvette Stingray."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/lo ... e4full.htm
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A
JRWnTN said:
"Officer Adam K. Schutz was helping to test and clean the first shipment of guns when he shot himself in the fingers.
"It bit me," said Schutz, who was left with permanent damage to a finger on his left hand. "I was moving my hand to lower the slide and it jumped forward. I had assumed the gun was unloaded."
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Seems he forgot one of the basic rules of gun handling.

Personally, based on years of dealing with police officers, I trust my 9 year old son more with a handgun than I do most cops. Just because they carry a gun, doesn't make them a gun person.
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T
In February of 2000 Mas prefaced the LFI-1 class I took with, "No one has ever taken a bullet in one of my classes! You will not f*** that up!"

I seem to recall an incident in the last couple years about a guy shooting himself in the leg with his IPSC gun at what I thought was an LFI class. I think it was mentioned in American Handgunner and Clint Smith also mentioned later meeting the student at one of his own classes.

I wonder if Mas will adopt the Farnam approach to equipment and just prohibit trick guns and cheap holsters?
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Tim Burke
I recall that story, but, IIRC, it was an AD on reholstering that did not result in a GSW. It was an LFI class, level 2, I think.
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T
A poster on The High Road is saying that the injured lawyer is known for her RKBA advocacy. That might be why her name seems familiar.

Personally, I'm also wondering if the retention strap got caught in the trigger guard. Wasn't there just a Fobus holster recall for this very thing?

Rob
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L
There was Fobus recall involving Glock holsters. See here:

http://www.ambackforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=8517
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D
Trebor said:
…I'm also wondering if the retention strap got caught in the trigger guard. Wasn't there just a Fobus holster recall for this very thing?
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 The Fobus recall has been thoroughly discussed here, as Rob has noted.

My first inclination was to suspect an Uncle Mike's type of holster with a peripatetic retention strap, but two things have come to the fore from trusted sources:
  1. Gunsite Academy prohibits IWB rigs for its API250 Glock students.[/*:2ei7hn9t]
  2. Apparently the rig was a Rosen of some sort… perhaps an ARG.[/*:2ei7hn9t]
I received the following on Saturday:
I spoke with her face-to-face on Tuesday.

Putting other issues aside for now, the round traveled down 20+ inches through her leg. She had been told (but had not verified) that the round was Cor-Bon, that did not expand following its passage through the Mitch Rosen holster that was loaned to her by the LFI staff.
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I have a call into Mitch, but have not had it returned at this writing.
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Snake45
DeanSpeir said:
the Mitch Rosen holster that was loaned to her by the LFI staff
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Oh, this just can't be good for ANYBODY.
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csmkersh
If it turns out to be an ARG, then I'd bet she had her finger still on the trigger as she returned the pistol to the holster.
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D
 

Spoke to Mitch a little while ago, and he's playing it cute, insisting that he has no information on the event or the equipment other than what he read in the newspapers, and that he hadn't heard that it might've been one of his rigs.

He muttered something about a right-handed rig for a southpaw, but that may have been speculation on his part… I genuinely don't know, so I may have to take the next step.

 
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A
:shock:

Not THE next step?

:lol:
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D
"The Glock is like a Corvette Stingray"

Feh! Not bloody likely Mate!
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D
No retention strap involved…

Al said:
Not THE next step?
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Speir's Intelligencer axiom: Get to the highest reliable source.

The Highest Reliable Source returned my call and we now know it was a Rosen Belt Slide for a USP. Male rig on a wide-hipped female who, despite the course being an LFI-3 (and all which that level of training conveys), had her finger on the trigger as she attempted to reholster.

Made a trip to the local E.R. where she served her LFI "safety suspension," then returned to acquit herself with distinction for the duration of the course, and even won a relay the following day.
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L
Re: No retention strap involved…

DeanSpeir said:
we now know it was a Rosen Belt Slide for a USP.
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A Glock 29 in a USP holster certainly fits the description of "…a holster that was not right for the gun." But the blame for this ND really has to fall on the student ("finger on the trigger"), and not the holster, the pistol, or the instructor. This assumes, of course, that the information from the "Highest Reliable Source" is accurate.
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