[Captain O]

The civilian version of the Model 50 (with a 18.25" barrel) that only fires in semi automatic mode. The submachineguns that have shorter barrels and a select-fire switch are sensitive to dirt and oils. In police and at nuclear power plants, the Reising model 50 and 55 (paratrooper stock model) submachineguns functioned very well.

The Model 60 wasn't a raging sales "success story" so Harrington And Richardson dropped it from their line in 1949. There was a special run made for a foreign contract during the 1960's.

Does anyone have any desire to own one of these pieces of history?

 

[DaninDayton]

Yea, at one time I was very serious about a .45 acp caliber carbine. I tried very hard to find a Reising Model 50. I was unable to do so. I did find a .22 version of the Reising and shot it for a long while. But, it was heavier than my Ruger 10/22 and I couldn't put a scope on it. So, it went down the road. I would still, like to own a model 50. I did get a chance to shoot the Model 60, later. I liked it better than the grease gun and the M2 carbine.

 

[stand watie]

To Both,

Fwiw, in my grad-school days/DAZE at Tulane, I worked for 2 years for a large private security agency & federal security contractor for DoE & we had MANY Reising SMG & at least 2-3 SA models.
(While, to my knowledge none of our agents ever fired a Reising even once at a human target, we all LIKED them & frequently took them onto the "on-facility" firing range & burned up several thousand rounds of ball ammo, W/O a single problem.)

I suspect that the USMC in WWII didn't like the Reising because they didn't do a good/adequate job of cleaning/lubrication, which takes all of 10-15 minutes to accomplish. - The "paratrooper model" had a wire stock that was JUNK & was nearly worthless.
(May I remind everyone that the early RVN-era M16 had the same problems, though the USAF Air Police, who guarded the flight-line, liked the M16 very much, when I was stationed near Barksdale AFB, with the RA USACIDC??)

IF I ever find another EX-federal LEO Reising SMG in the "FBI case" for sale at the BIG Dallas gun-show, I may just buy it.
(There used to be a Class III dealer, who sold firearms at all the Market Hall shows & always had cased Reisings for sale at a fairly reasonable price. - Some of the SMG that he sold LOOKED "as new", though the cases showed "storage & handling wear".)
ADDENDA: The same vendor in 2011 had THREE Reisings in hard-cases that had sequential serial numbers & looked "brand-spanking new" for 20,000.oo OBO. = Those 3 SMG were marked as property of the OK State Department of Corrections.

just my OPINION, sw

 

[Diamondback]

If the opportunity arose I'd take one for the collection... not worth giving up on pursuing a Thompson for though for me.

 

[TommyGunn]

If the opportunity arose I'd take one for the collection... not worth giving up on pursuing a Thompson for though for me.

I can identify with and endorse that!!! :bow: :angel: :sm_angel: :cheerschug: :cryinlaugh: :thumbsup:

 

[Captain O]

If the opportunity arose I'd take one for the collection... not worth giving up on pursuing a Thompson for though for me.

Would you settle for a M1928M1 (horizontal forestock) or would you prefer the vertical front grip?

You may not have looked into it, but MPA's .45 Carbine has also been seen on the internet for as little as $625.00 + taxes and background check. It shoots as accurately as a Thompson and costs between $450.00 and $650.00 less than the Thompson Carbine.

Sometimes less is more.

 

[Diamondback]

Personally, based on my experience with ergo... if by some fluke the Registry were reopened and I could have one Built To Order, I'd go with a Chicago-style 1928AC with both "classic" and "modernized" furniture sets. The VFG fits my biomechanics better, and it has the slower, more practical ROF. (How much faster do you need to empty a 100-round drum than six seconds, anyway? LOL)

Ugh, those icky Uzi ergonomics... Uzi and Beretta don't have enough "rake" in the grip angle to naturally work well with my wrist, Glock too much, 1911 is just right--and the Thompson I handled the main grip felt pretty close to 1911 if memory serves.

Guess what I'm trying to say is while it's not a Bucket Lister, if the opportunity arose and the conditions were right I'd share the interest--would be good once I get tenure for teaching students about the bug-prone, adaptation-requiring gear that was issued in the Early War.

 

[stand watie]

Diamondback,

I cannot AFFORD a TSG but I can afford a cased Reising SMG. = >25,000.oo vs. 3-5,000.oo.
(The last cased Reising that I saw for sale was 4200.oo OBO & had a "plaque" that said: Property OK-SBI. = LOOKED "near new", though the corners of the "FBI case" looked a little worn.
(OK State Bureau of Investigation, I think??)

What makes me sick is that I turned down buying a 1928 "Navy Overstamp", in good shape, with a case of .45ACP ammo for 800.oo some years ago.
(My then wife kept saying that, "You don't NEED a Tommy-gun & I want to buy a new Buick.")

yours, satx

 

[Kevin Gibson]

I've never fired the semi-auto Reising but I've fired the SMG a few times. They're alright but they did have reliability issues. The Thompson was much more reliable but the ergonomics were horrible, and they weighed a ton. The US built crappy SMG's during WWII. Sure they worked, but that's about the only good thing you can say about them. We would have been better off just buying STEN's from the Brits.

The STEN, OWEN, and PPSH-41 were the best SMG's of WWII.

 

[stand watie]

Kevin Gibson,

IF I was in close combat again & was armed with a SMG, I would choose a Swedish K or a British Sterling. = Either are clearly superior to the others in function/controllability/accuracy or even the vaunted MP-40 of WWII fame.
(When I was OCONUS we put a lot of 9mm downrange with the suppressed Swede.)

MAYBE the BEST of the SMG is the Canadian version of the Sterling = The C1A2.

yours, sw

 

[Kevin Gibson]

Kevin Gibson,

IF I was in close combat again & was armed with a SMG, I would choose a Swedish K or a British Sterling. = Either are clearly superior to the others in function/controllability/accuracy or even the vaunted MP-40 of WWII fame.
(When I was OCONUS we put a lot of 9mm downrange with the suppressed Swede.)

MAYBE the BEST of the SMG is the Canadian version of the Sterling = The C1A2.

yours, sw

If we're talking about post WW II designs, then yeah I'd agree with you. I've never fired a SMG that could match the Sterling for smoothness and control-ability.

 

[stand watie]

Kevin Gibson,

Fwiw, BOTH the Swedish K & the first Sterling SMGs were designed (and some were issued) in late WWII.
(Someplace I have the photo of a British Red-Cap officer, who has a Sterling slung over his shoulder during Market-Garden.)

Some of the UK's paratroops had Sterling MK1 SMG then too.
(The Sterling was designed in 1943 & manufactured/fielded on "a limited basis" in 1944.)

yours, satx

 

[t-star]

all this is very well and good- UNTIL THE LIGHTS GO OUT- trying to do a mag change on anything but an UZI is time wasting and clumsy- I served with the cf for a while when the weapons were the fnc1 and the c1 smg, and we were taught to do a mag change in the dark the thing to do was to rotate the gun so the port was up like a bren and jam it in there- even then you could get it confused fore and aft and still end up with a jam- and it took minutes to clear it- no love for the stirling have I- or for the sten for that matter- only the uzi has it right in the "hand finds hand" method when the lights go out

 

[Kevin Gibson]

Kevin Gibson,

Fwiw, BOTH the Swedish K & the first Sterling SMGs were designed (and some were issued) in late WWII.
(Someplace I have the photo of a British Red-Cap officer, who has a Sterling slung over his shoulder during Market-Garden.)

Some of the UK's paratroops had Sterling MK1 SMG then too.
(The Sterling was designed in 1943 & manufactured/fielded on "a limited basis" in 1944.)

yours, satx

Yes they were WW II (very late WW II) designs, but they were basically Cold War / Post-WWII weapons.

Market Garden, specifically the battle of Arnhem, saw use of STEN Mk V's and a small number of the predecessor to the Sterling, the Patchett Mk 2 SMG. For some reason I recall the number being 50 Patchett's, but don't quote me on that. The Patchett was an experimental SMG at that time. The Sterling Mk IV as you and I know it wasn't adopted until 1953.

The Patchett used at Market Garden is nearly identical to the Sterling that was eventually adopted. The gap between WW II and when it was adopted wasn't for additional development time, it was because there were so many STEN's (which were completely adequate SMG's) in the inventory so there was a lot of resistance to replace the STEN for financial reasons.

The only differences between the one adopted in 1953 and the one used at Arnhem are (from memory, so sorry if I don't list everything).

Finish - Patchett was Parkerized (as was early Sterlings), but eventually the Sterling went to the baked on wrinkle enamel it's so famous for (always loved that finish).

Muzzle cap - Sterling used a muzzle cap that aided in the use of a knife style bayonet (I think the one for Enfield "Jungle Carbine")

Magazine housing / Mag release - The magazine housing was slightly elongated and the magazine release button was greatly increased in size.

Magazine - I'm not sure if the curved magazine was used at Market garden or not (I think some were IIRC), but the magazine did get further development into what was probably the best SMG magazine ever built.

Other than those small changes, the Sterling was very much the same gun as the Patchett.

But understand the Patchett was used in VERY small numbers during WWII so I (and many others) have always thought of it really as a Cold War era weapon.

Same with the Swedish K. Designed at Karl Gustav in 1944 and adopted (in very small numbers) in 1945, it really didn't get into widespread use until the early 1950's. Actually I'm pretty sure the Egyptians made more "Port Said" M-45's than Karl Gustav ever did. But the Swedish K became a Cold War staple and most anywhere there was conflict during the Cold War, you'd find a Port Said Swedish K.

And if we're being honest, 99% of all SMG's can trace their design lineage to WW II or just before.

 

[Kevin Gibson]

all this is very well and good- UNTIL THE LIGHTS GO OUT- trying to do a mag change on anything but an UZI is time wasting and clumsy- I served with the cf for a while when the weapons were the fnc1 and the c1 smg, and we were taught to do a mag change in the dark the thing to do was to rotate the gun so the port was up like a bren and jam it in there- even then you could get it confused fore and aft and still end up with a jam- and it took minutes to clear it- no love for the stirling have I- or for the sten for that matter- only the uzi has it right in the "hand finds hand" method when the lights go out

I'm a fan of the UZI as well, and in my book the UZI is the second best SMG ever made. I've never found it difficult to reload the Sterling and I could easily do it blind folded. But you just have to remember to draw the bolt back before inserting the magazine, because otherwise it will be a bit difficult getting the magazine to seat all the way in. When you stuff that 34th round in that mag, it's not going even a little bit further, so trying to compress the follower against a closed bolt is really tough. As for clearing jams, I think what you're describing is pretty much all SMG's. If a round drops into that receiver, they're precarious to get out because the 9mm is kinda small in a cavernous receiver.

But to shoot I have found the Sterling to be more reliable than any other SMG I have ever used. They shoot smoothere and are easier to control in full auto than any other SMG I've ever shot with the possible exception of the Colt M16 SMG...which isn't fair because it's an assault rifle in a pistol caliber.

But your assessment of the UZI is spot on, it's an outstanding SMG. They're simple, extremely robust, controllable, reliable, and they handle VERY well.

 

[stand watie]

Kevin Gibson,

Fwiw (and that's little) my favorite is the C1A2 "fully silenced" that is Canadian made & the most controllable SMG I've ever fired.. - The loudest thing about a burst from the C1A2 is the bolt cycling.

Our Northern neighbors got that buzz-gun "just about right".

yours, sw

 

[t-star]

if memry serves, the villar perosa was fielded by Italy in1915 and the bergman was fielded about 1918, but the treaty of Versailles got in the way- load out was supposed to be 2 smgs and a cart holding magazines

 

[Kevin Gibson]

Kevin Gibson,

Fwiw (and that's little) my favorite is the C1A2 "fully silenced" that is Canadian made & the most controllable SMG I've ever fired.. - The loudest thing about a burst from the C1A2 is the bolt cycling.

Our Northern neighbors got that buzz-gun "just about right".

yours, sw

That would be the Canadian version of the L34A1, and yes it really was a magnificent suppressed SMG for its day. Today's suppressors are much better, but the suppressed Sterling was as good as it got during the Cold War days.

 

[Kevin Gibson]

I just remembered a conversation I had with a former British Para. A friend of mine served in the Brit Para's during The Troubles and we got to talking about the Sterling SMG which he had a particular fondness for since he did a lot of door kicking and room clearing with one.

He said that they used to have rifle matches with the open bolt full auto Sterlings. He said once you learn to hold it real still after tripping the trigger, the little Sterling would produce groups far better than it had any right to produce all the way out to 250 yards. Since it was easy to turn in pretty targets with their FAL's, they accepted the extra challenge of shooting a rifle match with the Sterling and it turned out to be a very accurate SMG in semi-auto mode.

I can attest to the accuracy too. I have a semi-auto and while I have the advantage of firing from a closed bolt, I have hit clay pigeons against the backstop at 200m with boring regularity using ball ammo and the issue open sights. Those clay pigeons are only 3 1/4" in diameter, so you're talking about a carbine that's exhibiting groups significantly smaller than 3MOA. I'd be willing to bet if you scoped my Sterling carbine and shot from a bench that the little rifle would produce groups around half that.

Every time I take that little carbine out I'm glad I bought it and wish I had bought a second one.