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The '94 ban is dead. But don't think the issue is dead - especially if Kerry is elected. Even if Bush returns you can look for the Ds and Rs to plot against us since they've got time for the dumb voters to forget their perfidity before the next round of elections.
 

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Yep, Sam's right! It can all get so convoluted too, between preban, postban, firstban, afterban, secondban....
 

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DeanSpeir said:
The sunrise will bring the sunset!

We rejoice!
Yes, but there will be only muted celebration in NY, NJ, MA, and CA thanks to state bans.

In NYS, we are going to have a particularly bad time with our law, which relied on the federal ban's existence for enforceability. For example, since guns and mags made after the sunset do not have to be dated or marked "For Law Enforement Only" or "For Export Only," how will a New Yorker buying a 17-round Glock mag know if it is pre-ban or post sunset? If it is pre-ban, it is legal. If it is post-sunset, he's a felon.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
There might be some relief in sight…

Rob said:
In NYS, we are going to have a particularly bad time with our law, which relied on the federal ban's existence for enforceability.
Perhaps for the immediately foreseeable future, but someone I know and for whose legal accumen in these matters I have great respect, has drafted, and handed up to what he believes are the "right parties," some clarifying… (or should it be termed "rationalizing?") proposed legislation to address the anomalies which now exist because of the wretched Pataki law.

(Pssssst… how'd I do?)
 

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Thinking about NYS... If the mag is not marked, how whould they be able to tell? Mags are not made with serial numbers or anything and it is up to the state to prove your guilt - not for you to proove your innocence.
At least that is how it was supposed to work.

Just because the sunset happened, of course the fight continues.
We have an election to attend to.
The talk is all about Kerry and Bush - but the real battles are for all the other names on the ballot.
We have picked up a lot of momentum this last year. Or I should say the Left has lost a lot of theirs.
If we can vote out the jackasses that pushed the ban in the first place - we can make sure that it doesn't happen again. There was a vote earlier this year to extend the ban, and it passed. But it was attached to a bill that did not and we dodged a big bullet right there. It passed because 12 Republican JERKS voted to extend the ban. Those should be the first people we vote out of office.
 

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Not that I want to be the test case but isn't the onus more on the seller than the buyer?

Ed
 

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And it is official:

U.S. Department of Justice

Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco,
Firearms and Explosives

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Washington, DC 20226​

CHANGES IN FEDERAL LAW AS OF SEPTEMBER 13, 2004
RELATING TO
SEMIAUTOMATIC ASSAULT WEAPONS (SAWs)

AND

LARGE CAPACITY AMMUNITION FEEDING DEVICES (LCAFDs)

GENERAL

As of September 13, 2004, the provisions of Public Law 103-322, the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994, covering semiautomatic assault weapons and large capacity ammunition feeding devices are no longer in effect. The regulations implementing these provisions also are no longer in effect.

Specifically, there is no longer a Federal prohibition on the manufacture, transfer, and possession of semiautomatic assault weapons and large capacity ammunition feeding devices.

There are no longer any marking requirements for semiautomatic assault weapons and large capacity ammunition feeding devices. Existing markings on firearms and magazines relating to law enforcement or government use may be disregarded.

There is no longer any Federal requirement for Federal firearms licensees to obtain certain documentation before transferring semiautomatic assault weapons and large capacity ammunition feeding devices to government agencies or law enforcement officers. However, any records obtained prior to September 13, 1994, pertaining to the sale or transfer of semiautomatic assault weapons must still be retained for a period of 5 years. See 27 CFR § 478.129(f). Moreover, records of importation and manufacture must be maintained permanently and licensees must maintain all other acquisition and disposition records for 20 years.

Licensees who provided letters of future intent to sell semiautomatic assault weapons and large capacity ammunition feeding devices to law enforcement agencies and other qualified customers are no longer obligated to comply with such letters.

Anyone who illegally possessed, manufactured, or transferred semiautomatic assault weapons or large capacity ammunition feeding devices before the bans sunset still have violated the law since their possession, manufacture, or transfer was illegal at the time.

IMPORTATION

The prohibition on the importation of non-sporting firearms under 18 U.S.C. section 922(l) and 925(d)(3) still applies.

Importation of large capacity ammunition feeding devices still is covered under the Arms Export Control Act. Therefore an approved permit still is required to import large capacity magazines.

Temporary importation of semiautomatic assault weapons and large capacity magazines is now lawful under the provisions of 27 CFR § 478.115(d) because temporary importations are not subject to the sporting purpose test.

Any importer who has a valid approved Form 6 import permit with a restriction related to the assault weapon ban should comply with the restriction because the weapons most likely are non-sporting.

Any importer who has a valid approved Form 6 import permit with a restriction related to large capacity ammunition feeding devices may disregard the restriction. Importers may apply for a new permit if they prefer.

ASSEMBLY OF NON-SPORTING SHOTGUNS AND SEMIAUTOMATIC RIFLES FROM IMPORTED PARTS

The prohibition on assembly of non-sporting shotguns and semiautomatic rifles from imported parts as provided under 18 U.S.C. § 922(r) and 27 CFR § 478.39 still applies.

SENTENCING ENHANCEMENTS

The sentencing enhancements for using semiautomatic assault weapons in a crime of violence or drug trafficking crime no longer are in effect. Similarly, the sentencing enhancements for semiautomatic assault weapons in the U.S. Sentencing Guidelines no longer are in effect.

LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS AND POLICE DEPARTMENTS

Law enforcement officers and police departments who obtained semiautomatic assault weapons are no longer required to use such firearms only for official use.

Law enforcement officers and police departments may now sell or transfer semiautomatic assault weapons to persons who are not prohibited from receiving firearms.

Law enforcement officers and police departments may now sell or transfer large capacity ammunition feeding devices to anybody.

Signed statements that semiautomatic assault weapons and large capacity ammunition feeding devices will be used for official use are no longer required to be provided to Federal firearms licensees.

RETIRED LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS

Federal law does not prohibit retiring law enforcement officers from keeping semiautomatic assault weapons or large capacity ammunition feeding devices.

Former law enforcement officers who received semiautomatic assault weapons on retirement may now transfer those firearms to persons who are not prohibited from receiving firearms. Transfer of large capacity ammunition feeding devices is no longer restricted.

NATIONAL FIREARMS ACT

All provisions of the National Firearms Act relating to registration and transfer of machineguns, short barreled rifles, weapons made from rifles, short barreled shotguns, weapons made from shotguns, any other weapons as defined in Title 26 U.S.C. section 5845(e), silencers, and destructive devices still apply.

Registered silencers can now be attached to semiautomatic rifles and pistols without creating a prohibited semiautomatic assault weapon.

USAS-12 and Striker12/Streetsweeper shotguns are still classified as destructive devices under ATF Rulings 94-1 and 94-2 and must be possessed and transferred in accordance with the NFA.

EFFECT ON STATE LAW

Expiration of the Federal law will not change any provisions of State law or local ordinances. Questions concerning State assault weapons restrictions should be referred to State and local authorities.

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/saw-factsheet.htm
 

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BTW, I went out to the supermarket this morning and I didn't see an AK47, Uzi or a Tech-9 anywhere. I'm gonna keep the kids hidden and the doors locked just the same. Can't be too careful! :wink:

Ed
 

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Mad Ogre said:
Thinking about NYS... If the mag is not marked, how whould they be able to tell? Mags are not made with serial numbers or anything and it is up to the state to prove your guilt - not for you to proove your innocence. At least that is how it was supposed to work.
Unfortunately, it doesn't always work that way, especially in New York, where all handguns are illegal to possess unless some exception applies (like one holds a license). The assumption by law enforcement (especially downstate) often seems to be that a gun is illegal unless you prove otherwise.

And as for "how would they be able to tell," it may be that certain mags could be differentiated by looking at subtle design changes, assembly numbers, etc. Not that a cop would likely notice by casusal observation. But if, for example, a pistol is used in a self-defense shooting and then seized as evidence, a careful forensic check of the mag could determine it was post-sunset. And as I said before, that makes the one in possession guilty of a felonly. The New York AWB does not require "knowing" possession of an AW or "large capacity" magazine.
 

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Not that this will be any great surprise to anyone here, but I just read this, from a friend on another forum :

"I just spoke to a Ruger rep. She informed me,"A corporate decision has been made not to sell factory large capacity magazines for the Mini-14, however, we will be selling large capacity magazines for our P series pistol from our Ruger plant in prescott, Arizona (200 Ruger Rd., Prescott, AZ 86301)" I am disappointed and angry at Ruger. They don't mind taking your money for an assault weapon, but now they don't want to sell you mags for them. If they are trying to convince someone that the Mini-14 is a sporting rifle, they are wasting their time and playing us all for suckers. I'm sick and tired of spending my money for non-factory magazines that don't work!!!!! Thanks Ruger. "

I expresessed my own disgust and pointed him ( and everybody else ) toward this: http://www.thegunzone.com/rkba/papabill.html

Maybe a boycot of Ruger is in order....

J.C.
 

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I don't buy Ruger guns for many reasons. This just reaffirms my own justifications.

NYS - how you guys can live in states like that, it's beyond my capacity for tollerance, so I applaud you.
 

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They WILL be back!

Rejoice! However, they will be back.

This from http://www.goodbyeguns.org/

We, the people, therefore call upon you, our elected representatives, to enact legislation to remove all guns and firearms from private ownership. We, the people, call upon you, our elected representatives, to enact laws to:

Create a one year period for the United States of America to purchase at fair market value all guns and firearms, including hand guns, rifles, and even antique guns and rifles from domestic private ownership.

Prohibit and criminalize the domestic sale of guns and firearms, whether new or used.

Seize and destroy any gun or firearm found after the termination of the purchase period without compensation.

Prohibit and criminalize the domestic possession of a gun or firearm after the termination of the one year purchase period.

Provide exemptions for governmental law enforcement agencies, the armed services, and bona fide museums.
 

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Ok, was it midnight last night or midnight tonight? I was just at a local gunshop and they insist it doesn't expire until tomorrow. The way I read Rob's post from the BATF is it's a done deal now.

Ed
 

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Here is what CNN has on their site...
Assault weapons ban to expire Monday
Monday, September 13, 2004
Posted: 10:38 AM EDT (1438 GMT)

SAN FRANCISCO, California (AP) -- Ten years after it was born out of the carnage of three California mass shootings, the federal assault weapons ban is fading out of existence Monday.
For the rest, click here.
 

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Here is what ABC News says...
Federal Ban on Assault Weapons Expires
Gun Shops, Police Departments Prepare for Expiration of Federal Ban on Assault Weapons

The Associated Press

BOISE, Idaho Sept. 13, 2004 - The expiration Monday of a 10-year federal ban on assault weapons means firearms like AK-47s, Uzis and TEC-9s can now be legally bought a development that has critics upset and gun owners pleased.
For the rest, click here.
 

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Everyone has the same stories, especially the dateline "Boise" story. But it's still ambiguous. The article posted by Rob says as of the 13, the papers and tv say tonight.

Ed
 

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Thanks, It's not like it's going to affect me much. I already have plenty of OEM mags for my Hipowers and the next guns I'm interested in getting are a 1911 style and maybe a Makarov. I wouldn't mind a shotgun with a pistol grip though.

Ed
 
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