[phantom4570]

No, not the dreaded seven engine approach.

 

[Diamondback]

Chuck Fisher did a hell of a job on that one, didn't he?

 

[CaptainGyro]

When this happened to an American Airlines flight out of JFK in November 2001 the aircraft became uncontrollable and crashed with no survivors. In that case the departure of the vertical stabilizer was pilot induced by a series of abrupt rudder reversals and the entire stabilizer was lost.

 

[Diamondback]

It also helps on that BUFF that that was one of Boeing's best company flight-test crews on the controls. Fisher wasn't quite a Tex Johnston, but they didn't exactly give shakedown on new B-52s to just anybody either.

 

[stand watie]

phantom4570,

Fwiw, my dad, during his USAAC service in 1945, actually saw a B-29 pilot land safely with NO functioning engines & "shot all to H", too.

My dad opined, "I saw that & still don't believe it". He paused & continued, "That bird was shot to pieces. I couldn't understand why it was still in the air, much less managed to land more or less in one piece, with all hands alive."

yours, sw

 

[William R. Moore]

That flight crew were definately company men! Bring it back for analysis, hope they got suitable bonuses.

I recall seeing a WWII picture of a B17 that made it back with a Me-109 stuck where the waist guns would have been. Another with the nose gone.

One of our AFROTC instructors got a DFC (actually his 3rd oak leaf cluster) for bringing a C123 back with most of the nose gone. He was doing pallet pull outs at Khe San when a NVA gunner removed most of the nose with a recoiless. His crew (minus the load master who rode the pallet out the back-unintentionally, and the co-pilot who was DRT) refused to jump. They were doing the Superman bit on their safety lines inside the plane. We saw pictures of the aircraft once he landed it. They scrapped it. After seeing the plane, they cheaped him on the medal.

 

[csmkersh]

Both the tail gunner and belly gunner had to have suicide tendencies, especially the belly gunner.

 

[SpecialEd]

That flight crew were definately company men! Bring it back for analysis, hope they got suitable bonuses.

I recall seeing a WWII picture of a B17 that made it back with a Me-109 stuck where the waist guns would have been. Another with the nose gone.

>>>>.

https://www.warhistoryonline.com/articles/ww-ii-b17-survival-story.html

 

[CaptainGyro]

That's an amazing story, especially when you learn that they got hit inbound to the target and went ahead and completed the bomb run in that condition. I suppose they figured there was protection in the formation whereas they'd be sitting ducks if they turned for home alone.

I can just imagine those two Me-109 pilots that jumped them on the way back:

"This guy is a maniac...looks like he already rammed one Messerschmitt today."

 

[csmkersh]

I read up on WWII bombing war in Europe and it was both appalling and amazing. Seems like we and the Brits had about 75% losses of planes and crewmembers. How did they ever manage to live long enough to put a 50 mission crush in their hats?

 

[William R. Moore]

Special Ed, I don't think that's the plane I was talking about. Might have been, but I remember the damage differently. The tail damage does look like another picture in the book. The ball turret gunner might not have had a choice. The turret had to be in a specific position for the gunner to exit. It wasn't unusual for that not to be possible without help from the ground crews. Obviously it was for the guys mentioned in that article since they belly landed and that's non survivable for a gunner in a stuck turret.

I heard about the 50 mission crush, but I expect that was a sarcastic label attached to beat up officers headgear. I do still recall being warned not to try to generate that appearance when we got issued garrison caps.

IIRC, the pictures I noted earlier were in a book on the Schweinfurt Raid. They lost 60 bombers that day alone. Although the pix might have been in one on the B17 or 8th Air Force. Gonna have to search the paperback stash and see if I still have any of them.

 

[SpecialEd]

Special Ed, I don't think that's the plane I was talking about. Might have been, but I remember the damage differently. The tail damage does look like another picture in the book.

I heard about the 50 mission crush, but I expect that was a sarcastic label attached to beat up officers headgear. I do still recall being warned not to try to generate that appearance when we got issued garrison caps.

IIRC, the pictures I noted earlier were in a book on the Schweinfurt Raid. They lost 60 bombers that day alone. Although the pix might have been in one on the B17 or 8th Air Force. Gonna have to search the paperback stash and see if I still have any of them.

Yeah, that was the most common story to come up. There are pages and pages of B-17 crash/damage pictures out there. A tough old bird. My uncle was a tail-gunner. He survived because he had ulcers so bad, he was rarely flight ready. Regarding "50 crush" it was actually donned/awarded? after 25 missions. I'd be amazed at anyone completing 50 missions in the Mighty 8th, in the ETO.

 

[William R. Moore]

I added a couple of forgotten details on Major Abe's gong. We'd sort of labeled him as a screwup because of his age and rank. Then we learned to read medals. The other officers had scads of I was here, there and everywhere fruit salad. Major Abe only wore the important ones. Impressed us no end and the dude had STYLE in spades. Which might (and being a cargo hauler) have been why he was still an O4 after starting in (or almost immediately after-flew the Berlin Airlift) WWII.

 

[CaptainGyro]

I had a great uncle who was a radio operator/top gunner on B-17's and got shot down twice. The second time they got hit over Germany but managed to make it to Holland before crash landing in a swamp. All ten survived. They destroyed the bomb sight and then gathered under a tree at the edge of the water.

"OK men", said the pilot, "let's all put our heads together and figure out how we're going to get back."

The nine others collectively stared at him in disbelief. "What do you mean 'back'?" they said. "Everybody thinks we're dead, and if we go back we've got nine more mission left to fly. Forget about 'back'."

They made contact with the underground, who hid them in various locations. They all had some gold in their survival kits which they used for goods and bribes, but eventually the gold ran out and duty called, so they agreed to let the underground spirit them back to England. Still, they had felt that the Gestapo search parties were much less threatening than the skies over Germany.

 

[William R. Moore]

I remember the book where (I think) I saw that photo of the 109 stuck in the B17: Flying Fortress by Martin Caiden. I thought I had the paperback here somewhere, but can't find it.

I expect that Stalag Luft Whatever would be less a threat than 25K feet over Germany. The food might not be as good, but at least you were alive.

 

[smokpole]

Some aircraft are just meant to fly!