[ExSarge]

What's the difference between Luger 9 MM and 9MM ACP? I'm assuming the Luger has a rimmed case and I know the ACP doesn't. Am I right? My neighbor asked what his 9mm Glock uses, the Luger or ACP. I'll get him to show me some ammo he has on hand for it but I just couldn't answer his question about the difference, if any.

Thanks in advance.....

 

[TommyGunn]

9mm ACP? I have never heard of that. Are you sure you don't mean .380ACP, which has been refered to a 9mm. Kurz? Kurz is German for "short," and the .380 is a shorter round than the 9mm. They are NOT interchangeable, BTW....like .22LR and .22 short.
The 9mm. has no rim, it is also for semi autos, as also is the .380. No rims at all.
Again I have never heard of 9mm ACP. You may possibly be refering to some round I've never seen.

 

[Snake45]

I've never heard of 9mm ACP. .380ACP and .38ACP, yes, but no 9mm.

The 9mm Luger is also known as 9mm Parabellum, 9x19, and 9mm NATO.

 

[Tim Burke]

And the .380ACP is also known as the 9x17, & the 9mm kurz.

Are you confused, yet?

 

[SpecialEd]

What everyone else said... never heard of a 9mm ACP. Or any metric ACP, for that matter. I'd have guessed he meant .380ACP but it's for a GLOCK. I think your neighbor needs to start reading and learning a bit more about firearms.

 

[t-star]

someone's fed you a fast one- there is no ACP for 9, as it's NOT a COLT CARTRIDGE- acp stands for automatic COLT pistol- now there is such a thing as a 38acp, which was a forerunner to the 38 super which USED a 9mm bullet( .355 or so)- or a 380acp, which is your 9x17 or 9mm short
as far as the 9mm luger having a rimmed case, well, that's another fast one- there are 9mm rimmed cases out there , but not for the luger- she takes 9mm luger, or parabellum, or 9mm nato, or any of a myriad of names, but they're all basically parabellums

 

[SpecialEd]

Never heard of 9mm NATO either, unless it was used as a power rating but not as a bullet dimension.

 

[William R. Moore]

The Glock should use 9x19mm, 9mm Parabellum, 9mm Luger. They're all different names for the same cartridge. Methinks either a gun shop commando or strange internet site may be in play. 9mm NATO is simply 9x19 mm ammunition loaded to NATO STANAG standardized specifications. You'll see a cross in a circle as part of the headstamp if it is.

Besides what the others have said, I'd strongly suggest your neighbor sit down and read the owners manual that came with said Glock. Suitable ammunition nomenclature is generally part of it. If he doesn't have one, I expect he can download it from the Glock website.

 

[shep854]

Proof positive that ExSarge is a true .45 man! No time, no--none at all for that sissy 9mm!

 

[P. Marlowe]

What's the difference between Luger 9 MM and 9MM ACP? I'm assuming the Luger has a rimmed case and I know the ACP doesn't. Am I right? My neighbor asked what his 9mm Glock uses, the Luger or ACP. I'll get him to show me some ammo he has on hand for it but I just couldn't answer his question about the difference, if any.

Thanks in advance.....

9mm ACP? I have never heard of that. Are you sure you don't mean .380ACP, which has been refered to a 9mm. Kurz? Kurz is German for "short," and the .380 is a shorter round than the 9mm. They are NOT interchangeable, BTW....like .22LR and .22 short.
The 9mm. has no rim, it is also for semi autos, as also is the .380. No rims at all.
Again I have never heard of 9mm ACP. You may possibly be refering to some round I've never seen.

The Glock should use 9x19mm, 9mm Parabellum, 9mm Luger. They're all different names for the same cartridge. Methinks either a gun shop commando or strange internet site may be in play. 9mm NATO is simply 9x19 mm ammunition loaded to NATO STANAG standardized specifications. You'll see a cross in a circle as part of the headstamp if it is.

Besides what the others have said, I'd strongly suggest your neighbor sit down and read the owners manual that came with said Glock. Suitable ammunition nomenclature is generally part of it. If he doesn't have one, I expect he can download it from the Glock website.

I just finished the second of two recent projects and for as complete as I found Glock's website to be, the one thing that is glaringly absent from an extensive list of downloadable items on it is anything resembling an Instruction Manual for any of their guns. Nor (on it) is there the almost obligatory "…if you don't have one, one will be made available free of charge…" statement that just about everybody else in the business has used for years in ads, on websites, all over packaging, and yes, even on some guns in regard to some manufacturers' willingness to put such a document in the hands of anyone who possesses one of their firearms.

Makes you wonder.

But one thing where there is no room for doubt is that they (Glock) refer to the cartridge in question as a 9x19. It shows up that way on their current site and on (at least) their current firearm photos. Even in the non-U.S. version, they make no mention of an alternate name for this round that I am aware of.

Note that in the case of their G25 and G28 Models, they appear to refer to them as chambered for ".380 Auto". No "ACP" there either! At least not online or in the photos of the guns that I have seen.

(I would assume that if you called or eMailed them, that it would be in their best interest to send you an Owner's Manual but they don't say that anywhere that I can find. Still, if anybody needs one, I would think that it would be worth a try. And certainly better than taking one's chances with the second-hand copy of what might be a 20-year-old one that is about the only thing floating around online.)

 

[ExSarge]

OKAY Guys. So there is no such thing as 9 MM ACP. My further research also has me agreeing with you all. I'll have to get with my neighbor and check everything out and also hope he has the manual for his Glock. I don't even know what model it is. All he asked me was if I knew where he could get some ammo for it at a decent price.

And yes Shep, I am a true .45 fan and could walk up and shoot Sharpshooter with it without a bit of practice, which I did many times while stationed at the Camp Lejeune rifle range.

I am glad to find out that all 9 MM is pretty much the same. Only 9 MM I have is a P-38 which I have to admit is a very smooth shooting pistol. I guess it's worth something because it has the Swastika on all the parts. Don't ask cause I wouldn't part with it for the world (but a 5 mil offer might make me start thinking about it).

 

[t-star]

that's the european way of "getting around " saying colt- just winchester 30 in the old days, they use some other nomencleature to ref the same cartridge- you'll see such things as 32 auto instead of 32acp, 9mm auto or just 9mm and 45 auto instead of 45acp- however, when you get into 9mm, there's at least 4 different types-380( 9mm short or kurz)9x18( makarov) 9x19 parabellum( luger, nato- the "common" one ) 9mm largo, bergmann, ( basically the same as a 38 super) and a thing called a 9x23- dillon made it to overcome the problems of making "9 major"

 

[stand watie]

to ALL,

i wouldn't doubt for a second that SOMEBODY/SOMEWHERE hasn't loaded/advertized a "9mm ACP"!

when i was last in South America, i saw/fired a pistol from Eastern Europe (from SERBIA, if i understood the markings on it correctly) that was marked 9mm ULTRA MAGNUM (and a LOT of other verbage in Espanol) on the slide.
(measuring a fired case proved that it was a quite ordinary 9x23 Bergman.)

As the pistol is a Glock, it's likely either a 9mm Parabellum OR if sold abroad, it COULD be a 9x21mm or 9x23mm.

BEWARE: MANY foreign countries do NOT have a "truth in labeling law".
(there is at least one plant in Asia that is "turning out" counterfeit "RED NINE Mauser " broomhandles & "NAZI-marked" Lugers, too.)

 

[shep854]

What if someone labeled the .38 Super, '9mm ACP'?

 

[William R. Moore]

Back in the early days of the last century, renaming cartridges was fairly common. 7x57mm Mauser & .275 Rigby being just one example. We got the .38-40, .44-40 and similar names because other manufacturers didn't want to put .38 or .44 Winchester Center Fire on their guns.

There were a slew of 9mm cartridges: 9mm Bergman-Bayard, 9mm Browning Long, 9mm Largo, 9mm Parabellum, 9mm Steyr and our very own .38 Auto being examples I can remember off the top of my head. They all (except the 9mm Parabellum) seemed interchangable both in dimensions and ballistics. I had a buddy with an Astra 400 that functioned with all of them plus 9x19mm. Please note that the .38 Super operates at much higher pressures than everything previously listed except for the Parabellum.

I suspect the 9mm Luger name as part of the ammunition came about because Stoeger wanted everyone to be aware just which 9mm cartridge the P08 used.

I'm surprised the Glock website doesn't have manuals available as downloads. I'm not surprised Gaston refers to the Glock 17/19/? as being 9x19. First, that's how most of the world knows the cartridge. Second, it avoids use of a name that isn't "Glock".

9x21 is for those countries that prohibit civilian ownership of 'military' caliber weapons. Italy comes to mind, there are others.

 

[spwenger]

Two Points

as far as the 9mm luger having a rimmed case, well, that's another fast one- there are 9mm rimmed cases out there , but not for the luger- she takes 9mm luger, or parabellum, or 9mm nato, or any of a myriad of names, but they're all basically parabellums

I recall a 9mm rimmed cartridge - analogous to the .45 Auto Rim - introduced for use in a Charter Arms revolver but ostensibly withdrawn after it was discovered that it would chamber in older .38 S&W revolvers. Some have argued that the slightly smaller diameter of the 9mm bullet would have precluded safety issues but it's now a cartridge only for collectors.

when i was last in South America, i saw/fired a pistol from Eastern Europe (from SERBIA, if i understood the markings on it correctly) that was marked 9mm ULTRA MAGNUM (and a LOT of other verbage in Espanol) on the slide.

I've never heard of a 9mm Ultra Magnum but I do recall a 9x18mm Ultra that made a brief appearance in West Germany, shortly before that country standardized the 9x19mm (Parabellum) cartridge for all its law enforcement pistol.

 

[stand watie]

spwenger,

9mm Ultra Magnum was evidently NOTHING but a "marketing ploy" to sell some "relatively hot" but otherwise quite common (in South America) 9x23 Bergman handguns/ammo, as it was EXACTLY the same size & similar in ballistics to the 9x23mm ammo that is "made for SMG".
(P.T. Barnum was CORRECT.)

btw, the Serbian (???) handgun, that i mentioned above, LOOKED externally like a cross between a Browning Hi-Power and a Steyr GB.
When we took it apart (to get the HEAVY grease out of the inner parts,) we discovered that it LOOKED like a CRUDE clone of a "somewhat enlarged" 1911 Colt's Government Model.
(as crude as it looked, it shot quite accurately/decently & 9x23MM is DIRT CHEAP down there, so The Gardia Civil 1LT who had bought it was PLEASED.)

yours, sw

 

[stand watie]

spwenger,

fwiw, many "experts" have said that the 9mm Ultra was the father of the 9mm Makarov cartridge.

btw, my daughter has "my little MAK"
(Noemi didn't want A PISTOL, when she decided to get her CCW. she wanted MY pistol.- that's why i bought my Sig-Sauer P6.)
& is DEADLY with it. - quart-size oil cans are "in grave danger" from "reach out & touch me" to 25M away.

yours, sw

 

[spwenger]

9mm Ultra Magnum was evidently NOTHING but a "marketing ploy" to sell some "relatively hot" but otherwise quite common (in South America) 9x23 Bergman handguns/ammo, as it was EXACTLY the same size & similar in ballistics to the 9x23mm ammo that is "made for SMG".
(P.T. Barnum was CORRECT.)

When I first began offering Arizona CWP courses, in Douglas, I got a telephone inquiry from a man who triggered some questions on my part. When I asked him what kind of handgun he would be using in the course he replied that he would use his 9mm Magnum.

I expressed surprised as the 9mm Winchester Magnum (9x29mm) had never gained much of a following and is generally considered to have been a dead-end effort. I then asked what kind of gun he had in that chambering and was told that it was a Spanish Star.

While Douglas is on the border with Mexico, I don't believe this man spoke Spanish so my guess is that, rather than some South American hype filtering up though Mexico, he or a friend had simply assumed that the 9mm Largo cartridge was a Magnum version of the 9x19mm because the case was a bit longer.

 

[stand watie]

spwenger,

fyi, J&G Gun Ranch didn't make things any clearer/better, when they described the "SMG load" in 9x23 ball (which they evidently had LOTS of) as "the.357 magnum of 9mm auto-pistols".

yours, sw