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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So re-reading War Baby, The U.S. Caliber .30 Carbine by Larry Ruth.

Here's a little Carbine PDW that was designed in 13 days, squashed the competition, in under 4 years over 6 million were made, 8 or 9 manufacturers, over 60 sub-contractors.

The Carbine was sufficiently accurate, extremely reliable, and there were never any significant parts quality or interchangeability issues.++

It was a massive hit with US soldiers, and a LOT of them found their way straight up to the front lines even though it was supposed to be weapon for support troops. And I've always said that it was so good at it's job, people always compare it to full on battle rifles or assault rifles.

I"m saying it was the best we've ever done to roll out an individual weapon.





++ Certainly there were problems with parts, but those were rejected and few if any ever got into the actual supply lines.
 

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Kevin, all I can say is that the little Inland I have looks like it has been rode hard and put away wet. My grandson and a friend of his took it out yesterday and put 100 rounds through it between them without a hitch. The little bugger is a pure joy to shoot, and even young shooters have no problem handling the gun.

I personally think it is right up there with the 1911 as a close to, if not perfect, purpose designed weapon. It does what it was intended to do extremely well.

Not that I figure you'll remember, but this is the gun that needed a new trigger (return?) spring and gave me fits trying to put one in. I got frustrated, and for me that is always a sign to put it down and walk away. So I did. I was going to bring it to a local gunsmith, but never did. Finally took the bag o' gun parts out and had it all back together in about 20 minutes.

I used to do the same thing when I worked on cars. I just couldn't afford THAT long of a cooling off period.

Either you or Snake stated something like "...even the most dickfingered among us" should be able to replace that spring, and I mentioned that my Doc had circumcised me 11 times. :D
 

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How wonderfully astute!

I appreciate the M1 Carbine far more than the M4. It:

a) is light and handy,

b) sufficiently powerful for work out to 100 yards,

c) low recoil,

d) sufficiently accurate for pest control,

e) varminting,

f) home defense (another form of large varmint/pest control)

g) reliable (when properly constructed)

h) a marvelous training platform for women and younger shooters

i) it is better looking than the M4

j) it has lower muzzle blast than the M4.

What'a not to like? :thumbsup: :grin:
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Kevin, all I can say is that the little Inland I have looks like it has been rode hard and put away wet. My grandson and a friend of his took it out yesterday and put 100 rounds through it between them without a hitch. The little bugger is a pure joy to shoot, and even young shooters have no problem handling the gun.

I personally think it is right up there with the 1911 as a close to, if not perfect, purpose designed weapon. It does what it was intended to do extremely well.

Not that I figure you'll remember, but this is the gun that needed a new trigger (return?) spring and gave me fits trying to put one in. I got frustrated, and for me that is always a sign to put it down and walk away. So I did. I was going to bring it to a local gunsmith, but never did. Finally took the bag o' gun parts out and had it all back together in about 20 minutes.

I used to do the same thing when I worked on cars. I just couldn't afford THAT long of a cooling off period.

Either you or Snake stated something like "...even the most dickfingered among us" should be able to replace that spring, and I mentioned that my Doc had circumcised me 11 times. :D
The trigger spring is a bit of a booger to get back in, so much so that the Ordnance department made a special tool for it. When I had to go through 11,000 Carbines that we imported, I got pretty good at doing the trigger spring with a flat blade screwdriver.

And yeah, I've always thought it was one of the most inherently shootable centerfire rifles ever built. The AR has better ergonomics and maybe a little more inherently shootable for a new recruit (especially past 200m), but the little M1 is pretty darned slick.
 

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Kevin, all I can say is that the little Inland I have looks like it has been rode hard and put away wet. My grandson and a friend of his took it out yesterday and put 100 rounds through it between them without a hitch. The little bugger is a pure joy to shoot, and even young shooters have no problem handling the gun.

I personally think it is right up there with the 1911 as a close to, if not perfect, purpose designed weapon. It does what it was intended to do extremely well.

Not that I figure you'll remember, but this is the gun that needed a new trigger (return?) spring and gave me fits trying to put one in. I got frustrated, and for me that is always a sign to put it down and walk away. So I did. I was going to bring it to a local gunsmith, but never did. Finally took the bag o' gun parts out and had it all back together in about 20 minutes.

I used to do the same thing when I worked on cars. I just couldn't afford THAT long of a cooling off period.

Either you or Snake stated something like "...even the most dickfingered among us" should be able to replace that spring, and I mentioned that my Doc had circumcised me 11 times. :D
Don't tell me... another drunk Irishman! :rolleyes: :beer: :rotflmao:

Just kidding!

Do you know what they call an Irish wedding without whiskey?

The Dublin chapter of Alcoholics Anonymous! :D
 

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Don't tell me... another drunk Irishman! :rolleyes: :beer: :rotflmao:

Just kidding!

Do you know what they call an Irish wedding without whiskey?

The Dublin chapter of Alcoholics Anonymous! :D
Pretty much, Cap'n. When I finally quit drinking, Jim Beam sent me a get well card. 3 months later, they sent my wife flowers and condolences. ;)

Seriously, You do know why God invented whiskey, don't you?

To keep the Irish from ruling the world.

:D
 

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Kevin Gibson,

I'd like the M1/M2 carbine MUCH better it it was in either .22 Johnson Spitfire, .351 WSL or .401WSL.

Fwiw, Winchester Arms offered the .351 & .401 WSL loads for free for the little carbine.

yours, satx
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Kevin Gibson,

I'd like the M1/M2 carbine MUCH better it it was in either .22 Johnson Spitfire, .351 WSL or .401WSL.

Fwiw, Winchester Arms offered the .351 & .401 WSL loads for free for the little carbine.

yours, satx
.351 WSL was initially considered but it had rather poor barrier penetration performance, so they scaled it back to .30. For it's intended range, the .30 cal round out performs the 5.7 Johnson.
 

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.351 WSL was initially considered but it had rather poor barrier penetration performance, so they scaled it back to .30. For it's intended range, the .30 cal round out performs the 5.7 Johnson.
The .30 Carbine is the best development of all Winchester's "light rifle" efforts. The 5.7 Johnson eventually morphed into the .223 (5.56 x 45). It is an altogether different cartridge. The AR-15 is an alternate approach, for an advanced approach. While some consider it "better" it is just a different manner to address the same problem.

I don't like the smaller caliber. The larger bullet can defeat barriers with less effort than the smaller.
 

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Kevin Gibson,

IF the goal was penetration of barriers, the .401 WSL is the GEM in a small package. = Out to nearly 300M it will keep up with the .30-40 Krag in a much smaller package.

To quote P. O. Ackley, "The ,401 is the most effective small round ever made." - In my experience ( as a fellow who doesn't like to chase wounded deer for hours through the brush), deer hit anywhere in the K5 area collapse like a balloon punctured with a straight pin.
(I've NEVER had to chase a single deer hit with my Model 1910.)

yours, sw
 

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Captain O,

As many of the EOF here know, my high-tempered 1st cousin, who is the best shot with a rifle that I've ever met, once wrapped a Inland M1 carbine around a good-sized pin-oak tree after he hit a 8 point WT buck over 10X (with Winchester JSP) & it ran off to die sometime over a long NETX night.
(What Randy said, when he came up on the porch & pulled a Dr Pepper out of the ice, "ain't fit for tender ears".)

ADDENDA: As a result of that experience, I gave him my Model 740 Remington in .308, with which he still takes his limit of deer each Fall.

By the time that we found it, the coyotes had been at it & while, I fear, that it was still alive.
(When we recovered the partially eaten carcass, we found that Randy had hit him, while running, 9 of 10 times in a pattern that I could cover with the palm of my hand.)

As a result of that sad night, I won't shoot a M1 Carbine at anything bigger than a South TX coyote.
(My favorite deer/hog rifle is a Model 760 Remington in .300 Savage, loaded with a 185 grain GCCB with a flat-nose, at about 2000FPS.)

just my OPINION, sw
 

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Captain O,

As many of the EOF here know, my high-tempered 1st cousin, who is the best shot with a rifle that I've ever met, once wrapped a Inland M1 carbine around a good-sized pin-oak tree after he hit a 8 point WT buck over 10X (with Winchester JSP) & it ran off to die sometime over a long NETX night.
(What Randy said, when he came up on the porch & pulled a Dr Pepper out of the ice, "ain't fit for tender ears".)
.....By the time that we found it, the coyotes had been at it & while, I fear, that it was still alive.
(When we recovered the partially eaten carcass, we found that Randy had hit him, while running, 9 of 10 times in a pattern that I could cover with the palm of my hand.)

As a result of that sad night, I won't shoot a M1 Carbine at anything bigger than a South TX coyote.
(My favorite deer/hog rifle is a Model 760 Remington in .300 Savage, loaded with a 185 grain GCCB with a flat-nose, at about 2000FPS.)

just my OPINION, sw
I once heard a very similar story of a deer that did an unofficial absence post haste after being hit and had to be tracked down, to be found the next day....save for one detail:
In this story the weapon used was a .30-30 Winchester model 1894.
 

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I once heard a very similar story of a deer that did an unofficial absence post haste after being hit and had to be tracked down, to be found the next day....save for one detail:
In this story the weapon used was a .30-30 Winchester model 1894.
I've had a deer run with its heart shot out with even better calibers. Trailed one for close to a half mile. I've lost one deer in the last 60 years and it really upset me. I knew the deer would die and I hated the loss as back then we ate venison not beef. I used a .223 once and only once. Oh, I got the deer but a head shot should not have needed a second round. Love my .308s and aught sixes for this kind of work.
 

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A few years ago my buddy took a lung shot at a deer with a .308 reload with a ballistic tip bullet. The deer didn't even flinch and ran off down a brushy canyon We could find no blood hair or any other sign of a hit. My pal said he couldn't believe he had missed, so we went down into the canyon and found the dead deer about 300 yards in. The wound looked like he had shot it with a FMJ. Small entrance hole, small exit hole, no blood to speak of. This was right after ballistic tip bullets hit the market.
 

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I've had a deer run with its heart shot out with even better calibers. Trailed one for close to a half mile. I've lost one deer in the last 60 years and it really upset me. I knew the deer would die and I hated the loss as back then we ate venison not beef. I used a .223 once and only once. Oh, I got the deer but a head shot should not have needed a second round. Love my .308s and aught sixes for this kind of work.
These stories are apocryphal. I agree, the .308" bore (and larger) tend to drop game sooner, but there are no guarantees.

"There's not much in life that a man cant fix with $500.00 and a .30-'06." :D
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Kevin Gibson,

IF the goal was penetration of barriers, the .401 WSL is the GEM in a small package. = Out to nearly 300M it will keep up with the .30-40 Krag in a much smaller package.

To quote P. O. Ackley, "The ,401 is the most effective small round ever made." - In my experience ( as a fellow who doesn't like to chase wounded deer for hours through the brush), deer hit anywhere in the K5 area collapse like a balloon punctured with a straight pin.
(I've NEVER had to chase a single deer hit with my Model 1910.)

yours, sw
Well regardless, they went with .30 and the cartridge works pretty darned well. It has more energy at 100m than the .45 ACP has at the muzzle. Use expanding bullets and it's a wicked little round. I have flat mowed down Coyote's at 150m with the Hornady 90 grain JHP, as well as the Winchester 110 SJHP. The .401 would have made it a bit more versatile, but the .30 Carbine cartridge served its purpose quite well.
 

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Well regardless, they went with .30 and the cartridge works pretty darned well. It has more energy at 100m than the .45 ACP has at the muzzle. Use expanding bullets and it's a wicked little round. I have flat mowed down Coyote's at 150m with the Hornady 90 grain JHP, as well as the Winchester 110 SJHP. The .401 would have made it a bit more versatile, but the .30 Carbine cartridge served its purpose quite well.
Come to mention it, the .30 Carbine is carrying about 600 foot-pounds of energy at 100 yards. This is potent. I doubt that most people would survive being shot with Soft Points at that range.

The BS stories about it's "lack of potency" are just that.
 

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Kevin Gibson; CaptainO,

To Kevin: According to WWII era documents, the carbine was chambered in .30 caliber ONLY because some senior flag officers thought that the carbine was to be chambered in a cartridge of SIMILAR power to the US M2 .30.06 round.
(Any number of those "flags" were embarrassed by their ignorance AFTER the carbine was revealed. = GEN McArthur, for just one senior general officer, was heard to say that the carbine was worthless beyond the "effective range" of the 1911A1 pistol =50M.)

To both of you: Nothing but FMJ rounds are LAWFUL for military use, except for game & fish enforcement by our military's game warden personnel.
(I got into "hot water" with the post CDR when our desk sergeant issued some JSP 5.56 ammo to MPs, by accident, at a post where I was once the PM in the 1990s. While I was NOT the one who issued the illegal rounds, I WAS RESPONSIBLE by reason of NOT checking.- Those JHP rounds were intended for issue for "culling game" & ONLY to our GS-grade game wardens. = MAJOR OOPS!!)

Therefore, whatever the JSP or JHP in .30 Carbine will/will not do is MOOT for combat use against human targets.

Moreover, there is an excellent reason that several States outlaw .30 Carbine for big game. = It is considered to be INADEQUATE to the task by most professional game biologists.

yours, sw
 
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