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Discussion Starter #1
What type of matches is the M1A recomended for, and what modifications can be made (Heavy barrels, trigger jobs etc),or would a bolt be more applicable. Thanks
 

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It used to be The King of NRA Highpower and CMP events until they finally came up with a .223 bullet that could score points at 600yds.

Internal improvements are allowed under both sets of rules for Service Rifle as long as the exterior profile is not altered. The standard setup is an oversized stock, heavy barrel, tuned trigger, unitized gas system, NM sights, glass bedding and other misc "NM" parts.

Ty
 

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The vast majority of people now use the AR in NRA Highpower but some still use the M-14 type rifle.

The M-14 does well if the shooter knows his stuff but the AR is eaiser to master and that is why so many people use it.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Dont see how a 5.56 could be better at 600 yds. Have any M1A's won in the last few years and in what event. Thanks again the Diggerr
 

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well, the 5.56 loads intended for 600 yds wouldnt fit through the magazine, and arent shootable through an average AR barrel (1 in 9 twist is not fast enough for the long range bullets). Apparently the 75+ gr bullets work well at 500+ yds. I still like good old .30 cal myself. If you are serious about competing, and want to spend the least amount of money on a rifle and ammo, an AR is the way to go. You can buy/build a match grade AR for ~$1000, but a match grade M14 type rifle will cost twice that or more. I dunno what it cost to reload .223, but I am sure it is less than .308 too. If/when I ever get into shooting matches, I will probably shoot my M1A though, just because I am less concerned with scoring relative to others than in increasing my own abilities, and I like the traditional rifles.
 

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M1A in Matches

Sierra seems to be doing much more work on the 224 cal. bullets than their 308. They now have a 77 grain that can be loaded to magazine lenght and a new 90 grain that is for single loading only.

As much as I like shooting the AR in matches, I've started getting into the M1A. My reason for shooting these matches is to have fun. So I shoot whatever I feel like it at the time. Of course my name isn't at the top of the results listing but I'm not worried about it. :?
 

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The wind drift numbers for the 80 grain .223 and 168 grain 308 aren't that much different at 600yds. That is why the little .223 is holding its own out there. I've been shooting the AR in HP matches for about three years and average a solid master score. Now that my second son is getting into the sport, I've put my quest for High Master on hold, passed my match AR to him, and bought myself an M1A. Although I think the AR "rules" the HP game today, there is still a degree of "fun factor", and humility, that comes with shooting the .30 cal.
 

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Diggerr said:
Dont see how a 5.56 could be better at 600 yds. Have any M1A's won in the last few years and in what event. Thanks again the Diggerr
Jim O'Connell won the NTI Nathan Hale trophy in '03 and '04 I think with an M1A. I'll ask next time I see him.

Ty
 

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Fun Factor

Swamprabbit, I agree 100 percent. I shoot the AR much better in matches but I have a lot more fun with the M1A. But it will need a few tweaks to make it even slightly competitive as I only have a loaded and standard service version.
 

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The M14/M1A can compete and shoot as well as the AR-15, but the AR has less recoil, so you will stay on target after each shot, giving you more time for proper shooting technique. The M14 also takes more work to get them to shoot well, and stay shooting well. The AR system doesn't have bedding issues like the M14 does. For me, shooting the M14, I feel like I'm shooting a real rifle, but I do enjoy shooting the M16/AR-15, especially on full-auto. :D
 

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My M1A is on its way back from SAI where I had them basically upgrade my new loaded model to a NM version. They bedded the action, installed a NM hooded rear sight, unitized the gas cylinder, and replaced the front sling swivel rivets with screws (there was also some warranty work done). The trigger was already in good shape and it already had a NM front sight. I'm looking foward to trying it out when it gets back. The only thing left for me to do, other than load development, is to finish the wood stock to seal it.

I think it will be hard for my M1A to group as tight as my AR does but I expect the M1A to come in at MOA or better so I think that for HP competition, the difference is moot.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I think its all about what your comfortable with and train with. If you have confidence with your rifle you'll do well
 

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M1A Upgrades

We have a very good gunsmith here in the southern NH area whos specialty is M-1, M1A's & AR15. He is military trained and is not only good but reasonable. Plus I save on shipping. When I get the time, I'm having the gas system unitized and the rifle bedded. :?
 

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I shoot the AR in competition now, but last weekend I pulled the M1A out of the safe after a long hiatus.

I actually shot one of my best sitting-rapids EVER. I was a hair away from shooting it clean.

[IMG=left]http://home.carolina.rr.com/nbkky71/DSC04495.jpg[/IMG]

First two round were high, made a sight correction and then let go the remaining 8 rounds. The topmost bullet hole has a sliver of black in between the hole and the 10-ring. So I ended up with a 99-1X

After Perry this year I'm probably going to switch back to the M1A
 

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Old Sarge said:
but the AR has less recoil, so you will stay on target after each shot, giving you more time for proper shooting technique.
It's not really the time that gets you with the M1/M14. The big killer is that the recoil is actively trying to dissassemble your shooting position. Once an elbow starts to move, you can count on stitching a nice horizontal line out the right side of the target.
 

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With the advent of the 77 gr and 80 gr bullets the AR is hard to beat at 300 and 600 yards. The 77gr bullets can be mag loaded and they fly as good at 300 as a 168 MK out of a M14. The 80gr bullets will shoot as good as a 175 MK at 600. I shoot the M14 platform because I like it, not because it's better. A rifle that will hold 1 MOA will do well if you can hold it on the 10 ring. Dub out..
 

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Across the Course Score is an Average

The M1a is a better long range weapon, due to sight radius and ballistic coefficient, but as an across the course rifle, the AR has won out.

If you shoot either, and I have done, and do both, you get more points in the rapids with an AR than what you lose at 600 yards.

The human factor weighs in big time at long range. Missing a wind change, elevation errors, wrong windage, positional errors, these kill scores at Long Range. To be competitive at the top level, you basically have to shoot perfect scores at Long Range. Back at 600 yards there is not enough of a ballistic difference between the rifles to make up for judgment errors. Or bad luck. Having a marginally better rifle, or a marginally worse rifle at Long range is not as important as having a good day, making all calls correctly, and not having a train wreck.

Train wreck: At Perry, I was squadded next to a young AMU shooter. Told him I thought their long range ammo was too hot. He said the ammunition had been reduced in pressure and he wanted it back to the old higher pressures. That day, at 600 yards his new "lower pressure ammo" popped a primer and jammed up his rifle. I watched as he disassembled his lower from the rifle, pounded it on the ground, trying to dislodge the primer from his trigger mechanism. By the time he got everything all assembled, the wind had changed and his next shot was an eight. This also blew his time management as he did not have enough time left to wait for wind conditions to even out. Basically he was out of it. One train wreck at that level, and you are a has been.

In 1997 the entire Marine Team went AR. I asked them how they were doing. The answer was, better in the rapids and worse at long range. That's about how the rifles stack up. Plus the AR breaks less parts.
 
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