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That's a VERY nice example of the breed, and high wood too, a real rarity these days. Price too high? Apparently not for somebody.
 

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The description sounds good but I have a good friend who knows chapter and verse about jump guns and he says they really need to be thoroughly vetted.
 

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The description sounds good but I have a good friend who knows chapter and verse about jump guns and he says they really need to be thoroughly vetted.
Almost looks to good for me Charlie looks like it was made yesterday?Doesn't mean she's not legit but your warning/concern is also and $5K plus seems OK seeing some with bruises go for 3K-3.5K.
 

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The description sounds good but I have a good friend who knows chapter and verse about jump guns and he says they really need to be thoroughly vetted.
I agree with that Charlie there are a ton of M1A1s that were put together in some guys shop. If you can find a stock, which wasn't that hard a few years ago it's pretty easy to make one. There are probably people who can make an authentic looking stock. If there is money to be made someone will find a way. I remember a few years ago I had a friend who collected old plastic model airplane kits. Some of them were rather spendy. Then he found out the Chinese were counterfeiting them. Another guy I knew collected GI shoulder patches from the Vietnam war. Patches made in theater by the Vietnamese, which were usually pretty crude brought a premium on the collecters market. Then it was learned there was a guy in San Francisco who had Vietnamese refugees turning out scores of patches. The guy I knew quit the hobby in disgust. I didn't mean to be so long winded but Inever cease to be amazed at what people will do for money.
 

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I used to have a repro para stock; but it got stolen. I'd like another one for my carbine, I really like them.
 

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A couple years ago I ran across a guy up here in the woods who was selling off all of his collection to pay his medical bills from cancer. He had a Underwood carbine that had been vacuum sealed and stored. It was pristine and came with 500, 1944 date stamped rounds and 25 various capacity mags. I scooped it up. Not a Para model but extremely clean and beautiful wood..
 

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The description sounds good but I have a good friend who knows chapter and verse about jump guns and he says they really need to be thoroughly vetted.
A gun in that condition isn't too hard to vet, it's as simple as making sure the finish is original (that's really the hard part), and does the finish of the parts match. There is absolutely no way to tell which subcontractors parts went on to which rifles, and when.

But this whole notion of an "original" M1 Carbine, with precious few exceptions, is a myth. I have personally seen a grand total of ONE M1 Carbine that I knew for a fact was in original condition, and I have personally rebuilt 11,000 M1 Carbines. That one was the Carbine we found from a lot imported from Israel that was in the original wax paper. It was donated to the NRA museum.

In that group were two other carbines in truly exceptional condition. One had a finish that easily matched or surpassed the M1A1 in question, and everything appeared to be truly "original", and there's no reason not to think it wasn't.

The third sits in my safe today. The finish was outstanding as was the tiger striped birch wood. Any wear to the finish on this rifle was put on by me. But it is not the truly "original" finish because my carbine was one of the first arsenal upgrades, so it's the 2nd arsenal finish.





Notice the extractor is a very different color. About 20 years ago, I managed to break the original. The gun would still function 14 out of 15 rounds with nothing but the post of the extractor left; impressive.
 

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Almost looks to good for me Charlie looks like it was made yesterday?Doesn't mean she's not legit but your warning/concern is also and $5K plus seems OK seeing some with bruises go for 3K-3.5K.
You have to take a very close look at the Parkerizing. GI Parkerizing took on a green hue from being immediately packed in Cosmoline. That's not an easy look to fake, but I have seen it faked before. If the Park is the right color, you're just about half way there. To determine if it is truly the original finish, that's the hard part, and it just takes a guy who has seen oodles of Garands and Carbines to be able to tell the difference. But the government made absolutely zero effort to make "original" guns. And there's no way to tell if the stock is original to the gun, at best it's an educated guess. The gun appears to be righteous, but if you have to ability to fake the Parkerizing, it doesn't cost a decent forger much to convert a $1,500 Carbine into a $5k Carbine.

I just consider the "original" carbine to be a myth personally. When people drag out their "original" M1 Carbine, I just smile and admire (they're still very nice Carbines); I don't like to burst anyone's bubble.
 

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To All,

Fwiw, there are numerous NEW or "AS NEW" carbines in military museums.

When I was a staffer at USAMPS & a volunteer docent at the MP Museum at Ft McClellan in 1981, we had SEVERAL (never counted them) carbines that looked "brand spanking new", including some in the factory paper.
(Otoh, we tried, without success, to find an as new/unfired M1 Garand to put on display. - We finally settled for an "as re-arsenaled" RRAD rebuild of the Korea era, which btw has a BEAUTIFUL "tiger-striped" stock.)

A personal note: When I was at the MP Museum, we had a DAC/GS-13 who came over to the museum & "had a screaming fit" about us having a "functioning machinegun" on display.- He said that we staff members were "encouraging people to get machineguns & kill innocent people". ===> Just because a person is "educated" & paid a big salary doesn't mean that they aren't a FOOL, a HATER & a "Moron in the public view".
(To avoid having "further discord", nobody told the DUNCE that ALL the weapons in the museum are fully-functional.)

yours, sw
 

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" GI Parkerizing took on a green hue from being immediately packed in Cosmoline."--Kevin Gibson

Kevin, thanks for that tidbit. My Rifle, M1 has the greenish hue and I had wondered.
 

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Kevin Gibson said:
I just consider the "original" carbine to be a myth personally. When people drag out their "original" M1 Carbine, I just smile and admire (they're still very nice Carbines); I don't like to burst anyone's bubble.
Yup.....
I was going to say the one I have which I inherited from my father (who as some may recall I've stated was "liberated" from Korean War service) was ..."original" because it's how he brought it back from Korea. But it was likely revamped after WW2 (though it still has the original "L" flip type rear sight) .... and :oops: I just recalled, I myself changed out the magazine catch to the M-2 style with the extra projecting "finger" on the left side.
I kept the original part and could replace it of course ... but that wouldn't mean a lot.
I can understand why the military didn't care about "original condition" since they were not concerned about collector's desires a half century or more in their future, they were simply trying to efficiently maintain their weapons which were actual issue weapons in the day, not surplus for people to argue about provenance.

My carbine is hardly any more "original" than any other that's been isuued to (insert ## of soldiers here____) over (insert ## of wars here____) and then found its way into civilian possession.
But as I bet anyone can guess ....the value it has to me has nothing to do with whether or not it's ....:rolleyes:..."original.":D
 

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I just consider the "original" carbine to be a myth personally. When people drag out their "original" M1 Carbine, I just smile and admire (they're still very nice Carbines); I don't like to burst anyone's bubble.
I hear you Kevin my point was for 5K it better be true not something built in the last year.My G43 matches 100% thoughout only I having added a shooters kit in her for the gas system so as not to damage the original's any worst than they have been from service.;)

and Kevin that's a nice carbine.
 

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As the old Cher song goes, "If I could turn back time..."

I remember as a youngster in New Jersey in the 80s, racks on racks of these for around $300-$400, the paratrooper ones with folding stocks were about $50 higher than the ones with standard wood stocks. They were interspersed with M1 Garands for similar prices.

Beautiful rifles, and a piece of US history.
 

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DavidE,

As many old-time members KNOW, I'm "no particular fan of" any of the .30 caliber carbines BUT I sometimes wish that I had bought some re-arsenaled carbines from CMP, when I could have bought a trunk-full from the North Store at a price of 300-350.oo each.

IF I had been smart enough to do that, I could now have a house-full of M1 Garands that I would like.

yours, sw
 

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I understand wanting to own a piece of history. I bought an M1 carbine in 2012 that appears to be old. The barrel, receiver and trigger group are marked Inland, the barrel dates to 1944, the wood is GI worn and abused, with the serial number carved into the stock and painted white, but I have no illusions about it being "all original".

I sure can't see paying $2,500 for a gun whose value is so difficult to establish.

Then again, I shoot my carbine. I bought it to use, not as an investment.

And you can buy a newly manufactured carbine for an MSRP of $1,000 or less.

At least you can shoot it guilt free, and you know what the durned thing is worth.
 

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As the old Cher song goes, "If I could turn back time..."

I remember as a youngster in New Jersey in the 80s, racks on racks of these for around $300-$400, the paratrooper ones with folding stocks were about $50 higher than the ones with standard wood stocks. They were interspersed with M1 Garands for similar prices.

Beautiful rifles, and a piece of US history.
"David E"

I am certainly not doubting you but if what you saw was, in fact, during the 1980's, those guns were more than likely "imports" (original guns that, in essence, were being returned to the US through private firms) and not the GI Surplus that some of us "old-timers" remember from a still-earlier era when our Government not only trusted us with firearms (detachable, hi-cap, magazine-fed semi-automatic firearms at that) but when it was also more than willing to sell them directly to us themselves!

I do question, however, not what you saw but the validity (or the authenticity) of $350-$450 "Paratrooper" (folding stock guns) in those days; for in my floating around back then (and doing business with folks from different parts of the country), I would tend to think that they might have been "assembled" somewhat "after-the-fact" to meet the needs of an uncaring or perhaps unknowing part of the market.

You have to take a very close look at the Parkerizing. GI Parkerizing took on a green hue from being immediately packed in Cosmoline. That's not an easy look to fake, but I have seen it faked before. If the Park is the right color, you're just about half way there. To determine if it is truly the original finish, that's the hard part, and it just takes a guy who has seen oodles of Garands and Carbines to be able to tell the difference. But the government made absolutely zero effort to make "original" guns. And there's no way to tell if the stock is original to the gun, at best it's an educated guess. The gun appears to be righteous, but if you have to ability to fake the Parkerizing, it doesn't cost a decent forger much to convert a $1,500 Carbine into a $5k Carbine.

I just consider the "original" carbine to be a myth personally. When people drag out their "original" M1 Carbine, I just smile and admire (they're still very nice Carbines); I don't like to burst anyone's bubble.
To All,

Fwiw, there are numerous NEW or "AS NEW" carbines in military museums.

When I was a staffer at USAMPS & a volunteer docent at the MP Museum at Ft McClellan in 1981, we had SEVERAL (never counted them) carbines that looked "brand spanking new", including some in the factory paper.
(Otoh, we tried, without success, to find an as new/unfired M1 Garand to put on display. - We finally settled for an "as re-arsenaled" RRAD rebuild of the Korea era, which btw has a BEAUTIFUL "tiger-striped" stock.)...

yours, sw
DavidE,

As many old-time members KNOW, I'm "no particular fan of" any of the .30 caliber carbines BUT I sometimes wish that I had bought some re-arsenaled carbines from CMP, when I could have bought a trunk-full from the North Store at a price of 300-350.oo each.

IF I had been smart enough to do that, I could now have a house-full of M1 Garands that I would like.

yours, sw
"Kevin Gibson" and "stand watie"

As to the "whole notion of an 'original' M1 Carbine, with precious few exceptions" being "a myth", while I have to agree that with the huge number of opportunities for anything like them to have been repaired in the field, on the fly, at a depot, in an armory, by another country, or even at an importer's own location/facility (or, in fact, by the original governmental body in this country that was selling them off to the public in the old days or the new one that is still doing so now), finding a truly unaltered "as manufactured" (rather than an "as issued") one is a bit unlikely, I did see, and had the time to inspect at length, several that were just that (plus an inspectional or reference "manufacturing master" AND a full size shadowbox "exploded view" version made up from right-off-the-assembly-line, previously-uninstalled parts that was professionally constructed and labeled for reference as well).

All of them came from one of the WWII builders of these guns and I was completely sure of their provenance. I was allowed to look them over while they were being legally transferred from one friend in this business to another. All in all, it was pretty cool as I doubt there were any (many?) others like them anywhere else in the US; especially as so much of this kind of thing was later thought to be all but undesirable by many of the non-traditional arms makers in the decades after the War was over.

Even the people who made these guns told me that much of the government-installed, unique-to-firearms-manufacturing machinery they had used throughout the War, was either retrieved or (more often) just destroyed on site when the hostilities ended and nothing more was needed to be made.

Almost overnight at some companies (not theirs) such work was all but forgotten. After a while, such work became an out-of-sight, out-of mind kind of memory. And later, at some places, such work was all but disavowed by some of the firms involved, when, during the War itself, it had actually kept a few of them in business.

c'est la vie!
 

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I understand wanting to own a piece of history. I bought an M1 carbine in 2012 that appears to be old. The barrel, receiver and trigger group are marked Inland, the barrel dates to 1944, the wood is GI worn and abused, with the serial number carved into the stock and painted white, but I have no illusions about it being "all original".

I sure can't see paying $2,500 for a gun whose value is so difficult to establish.

Then again, I shoot my carbine. I bought it to use, not as an investment.

And you can buy a newly manufactured carbine for an MSRP of $1,000 or less.

At least you can shoot it guilt free, and you know what the durned thing is worth.
Here, here...

Yeah my Carbine is easy on the eyes, but she's had a blue collar life. After serving in WW II (whether it actually saw service, who knows), she was sent to Israel for their war of independence. After 30 years in Israeli service (and How knows if it ever was taken out of the rack), it was brought back. I cleaned her up, put some new oil on the stock, steamed out a couple of dents in the wood and put her to work.

That carbine has had THOUSANDS of rounds in my posession. I take good care of it, keep it cleaned and oiled properly. But I have supreme confidence in that little rifle. She's the most reliable firearm I've ever owned. She's also quite accurate for an M1 Carbine, I've shot 2MOA groups with open sights on numerous occasions.

And talk about fun!!! She's loved by everyone in my family and it's always a treat to shoot "Margaret" (named after my grandmother...okay, and after Ann Margaret; just handy they both had the same name).

The M1 Carbine was an absolutely SUPERB PDW and in most ways, I don't think the little Carbine has been topped in the PDW category. The Russian AKSU-74 is probably a better PDW, but I'll take the M1 Carbine over the H&K MP7 or the FN P-90.
 

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Just to add regarding the M1A1's. When I worked on those two batches of Carbines (11,000 in all), I can only recall perhaps 8-10 M1A1's in the whole batch. Seems as cool as they are, no one really liked them for serious use. We did find some poor condition stocks in one of the crates that someone just threw in, but it appears to me that the folding stocks were quickly discarded, and if you've ever used one, you can clearly understand why; it's a piss-poor stock. It's sad, because they came very close to having a very good folding stock, but stopped just short.
 
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