Gun Hub Forums banner

1 - 20 of 32 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,627 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
This may belong in another category, but it does impact gun rights, so here goes...

2 dead, 9 injured in shooting near Empire State Building in Manhattan, police say | Fox News

A lone assailant, armed with what is reported to be a .45 caliber pistol, shot and killed a former supervisor in downtown Manhattan this morning. He was fired from his job as a "Women's Accessories Designer" (?) about a year ago. Apparently he held a grudge.

The shooter fled the scene and was pursued by NYPD officers. When he raised his pistol and pointed it at them, he was shot and killed by the LEO's. A reported "8 or 9" people were wounded by the gunfire. It is "unclear" if the gunman fired any shots at police. Both Mayor Bloomberg and Commissioner Kelly have stated that police gunfire may have caused the additional wounded. Latest indicate that that there are 2 dead, presumably the shooter and his victim. These are what are now being reported as "facts". I can give them no more or less weight than that.

I was listening to our local talk radio station about 0930. Geraldo Rivera now has a syndicated show airing in the 0800 - 1100 time slot. That paragon of journalistic virtue was calling for the banning of "military style weapons", high capacity magazines, the registration of all guns, the registration of all bullets (!!?!?), the denial of firearms ownership to the mentally ill (ditto, ???) and the requirement of criminal background checks for all persons purchasing firearms. Oh yeah, and that one must belong to some type of sporting club or organization in order to "qualify" for the purchase of a firearm.

Geraldo was reporting this tragedy as if the gunman was armed with some type of "deadly military assault weapon" and had sprayed and prayed the innocent crowd. Of course it appears now that the gunman's objective was a single target. The spraying and praying was apparently done by the NYPD. Listen I am not jumping on the guys in blue up there. Manhattan, at rush hour (or close)? I wouldn't want to even think about discharging a firearm there. Nevertheless...

We may or may not hear any more calls for the curtailment of private ownership of firearms as a result of this, since the facts are slowly trickling out. The shooters occupation (if THAT information is correct) may or may not indicate that he was a gay man, and I believe that would have an effect on the MSM's reportage. These people (and I don't know why it grinds my gears so much, it's an old story) are chomping at the bit to use ANY excuse to attack firearms. Makes my stomach hurt. :grumble::grumble:

And I still can't figure out how Geraldo would "register" bullets. And if you shoot them, how you would de-register them. And if you reload, how would you re-register them? :confused::confused:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,499 Posts
WVNN, the station that broadcasts Jerry Rivers --OOOOOOOPS -- I mean, Geraldo Rivera, also broadcasts Limbaugh and Hannity and Mark Levine.
Neal Boortz used to be on before Rush, but he inartfully announced he was going to retire on January 20th, 2013.
I couldn't believe it when local host Dale Jackson said they were going to Geraldo. I sent WVNN a letter of protest.
*SIGH!*:help:
Rivera claims he's a registered republican but he's no conservative, for sure.
What bugged me especially this morning was his marching out Pennsylvania's ex governor Ed Rendell (SP?) who prattled on about wanting to ban assault weapons. BTW, one meme that's popping up is refering to "assault weapons" as "heavy weapons" (a favorite of Fox News' Bill O'Reilly) but Rendell refered to them as "Weapons of Mass destruction."
I, um, thought that "WMDs" were one reason why Shrub the Younger sent the army into Iraq. I guess it was all those AK-47s the Iraqis had, not the sarin gas, the yellowcake uranium, the photon torpedos, Empire DeathStars.....:rolleyes:
One caller pointed out that as far as gun registration often leads to confiscation, which Geraldo responded to by treating the guy as though he was a conspiracy theorist proposing that JFK had been assassinated by the Klingons.
Geraldo may be entertaining but he's not informed.
In New York City, certain types of semiauto longarms were registered in the 1960s. The city claimed it was doing this "for law & order" reasosn when the progun people protested that it would be useless for crime control and only lead to confiscation, and the city promised confiscation wouldn't happen.
Fast forward a generation to Mayor Dinkins. He pushed through a ban on some of those weapons and succeeded.
So much for "promises.":twisted::censored::censored:

In one letter to the editor of a gunmagazine I learned of one result of this.
A family that had moved out of a New York apartment building but kept in touch with people there long after they'd settled in Montana, I think. They received a letter from NYC saying their apartment had experienced a "no-knock" dynamic entry by NYPD's ESU (essentially their SWAT team) team all clad in ballistic vests and carrying SMGs and yelling "where are the guns?"
Well, of course the family that lived there was not the family the NYPD thought was there, this happeend during breakfast, and scared them sh!tl*ss.
Apparantly the NYPD are incapable of determining if the people who currently live in an apartment were living there in 1965.
You know ..... it's called "police work.":shame::shame::shame:
I'm not quite ready to believe the Trilateralists have taken over yet ..... but that's not the kind of police work I want to see in America.
Almost wished I'd called Geraldo to pass on that little tidbit.....
WVNN broadcasts on 770AM and 92.5FM. IF you switch up the FM band to 101.1 you can listen to Laura Ingraham until 11:00AM and then back to 92.5 for Rush.
Laura Ingraham is easier on the stomach acids .... for me, atleast.:angel:
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
3,882 Posts
IrishCop,

what bothers me is that the NYPD shot 9 INNOCENTS, 2 of whom are in "grave condition" according to WOAI News.

when i went to the academy, we were told repeatedly NOT to fire IF innocents were LIKELY to be HIT.

also, evidently over 30 rounds were fired, 3 of which MAY have hit the killer.

yours, sw
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,627 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
Tommy, thanks for rhe tip on Laura. I will adjust my listening schedule acco9rdingly. Oh, and I totally agree with your vision of law enforcement. I feel exactly the same way.

SW, I was always instructed to evaluate the background before firing. It was also stressed in the USAF, as we were generally providing security for resources where pilots, maintenance, and other personnel were present (not to mention multi million dollar aircraft).

There are those in the LE community that believe that in a situation where more than one officer is present, and one man opens fire, they all will begin shooting. I think that is a viable theory myself.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,940 Posts
Geraldo is one of those folks who causes me to reflexively change channels when he appears onscreen.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
7,758 Posts
NYPD isn't known for their accuracy or their restraint. Geraldo should have quit journalism after the whole Al Capone's Vault fiasco.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
3,882 Posts
IrishCop,

IF i ever get AGAIN in that sort of BAD situation (NOT likely as i'm fully retired), i hope to be able to do the same thing. = get into a covered position, where i can make ONE aimed center-mass shot from a supported kneeling/sitting position to END the situation quickly.

frankly, i'd rather look for an AH another day than chance killing a civilian.

but that's just my opinion.

i guess what bothers me MOST about today's horror story was thinking of the Emmanuel Nedegwa MESS that involved a sergeant & 4 patrolmen from NYPD about a decade ago. - all of the officers fired at Ndegwa from ranges of 12 to 44 feet (a total of over 65 shots fired) without HITTING Nedegwa even once. - otoh. 2 of the officers shot each other in the melee.

fyi, the NY State Police stated the next week that Nedegwa was UNARMED at the time & the NYSP investigators were "unable to determine who or why the first shot was fired".

the Nedegwa affair makes me wonder if any of the officers could be called "qualified to carry a firearm" & IF they had "qualified with a model M-1 PENCIL".

yours, sw
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,499 Posts
The NYPD may not be very competent, but they are the most conceited LEO, next to certain Federal Agencies too famous to need naming.

Last I heard the NYPD carried Glocks with 10-round magazines and NATO ball ammo. The local peasants might be safer if they went back to the M-10 3" and 158 gr RNL.

Don't worry the Commie Front Media will tell you exactly what they want you to believe.

Geoff
Who won't go to NY State, much less the Hell Hole at the end of Manhattan.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,940 Posts
I recently heard a story about a number of retired NYPD types that had relocated South and desired to keep their LE carry privileges in effect.

During the mandated course of qualification fire, shockingly poor marksmanship was observed, with some rounds actually impacting the ceiling.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Many moons ago, when I applied for my first carry permit (they were a lot tougher to get then), I was interviewed by an investigator from the local constabulary. I'll never forget the bowler hat he was wearing or one of the first questions he asked me:

"Why do you want to carry a gun, they're only good for pulling your pants down."...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,168 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,627 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
Round count is now listed in the teens. A reporter indicated that the NYPD believe that most of the bystanders were hit by ricochets which struck heavy concrete planters placed along the sidewalks in that part of the city. He mentioned that MOST of the civilians hit were..."struck in the legs".

That's their story, and they are sticking with it for now.

Confirmed that the bad guy worked as a designer of women accessories, specifically T-shirts. He was described by a neighbor as a "loner, a man who seemed more comfortable with animals than people."

A "slight, unassuming man", co-workers said he was the exact opposite of the "gregarious" sales manager whom he blamed for his problems at work and ultimately murdered.

Oh, yeah. He bought his handgun legally in Florida, before moving to NYC. But he never obtained a premises or carry permit, required in the city of New York.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,627 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
I recently heard a story about a number of retired NYPD types that had relocated South and desired to keep their LE carry privileges in effect.

During the mandated course of qualification fire, shockingly poor marksmanship was observed, with some rounds actually impacting the ceiling.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Many moons ago, when I applied for my first carry permit (they were a lot tougher to get then), I was interviewed by an investigator from the local constabulary. I'll never forget the bowler hat he was wearing or one of the first questions he asked me:

"Why do you want to carry a gun, they're only good for pulling your pants down."...
I'm not surprised, Walt. Most LEO's are trained to pretty poor levels. Only the few dedicated gun guys/gals make any real effort on their own to reach some level of competency.

And the cop that interviewed you for your first permit? Well, ya gotta admit, there is SOME truth to his statement. ;)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,627 Posts
Discussion Starter #13

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,200 Posts
Being NYC I am guessing all the injuries will be blamed on the criminal having a gun in the first place*

Though I agree the marksmanship issues are an issue here. To be fair to the responding police it was a crowded street and doctrine now is probably to engage a shooting suspect near a place like that as soon as possible due to worries about terrorist attacks. This guy seems to have been after one former co worker but the responders couldn't have known that. That said, the accuracy issue has cropped up in NYPD shootings before and I am not sure what their qualification and training procedures are.

2 dead, 9 wounded in Empire State Building shootings, police say - CNN.com

Empire State Building shooting victims say NYPD fired 'randomly' into street | World news | guardian.co.uk

*Just noting that banning guns will keep them away from criminals as well as banning drugs keeps them away from criminals.

Just to insert one more point, the NYPD could do a lot worse than to call up Massad Ayoob to help reform their shooting practice and qualification techniques and requirements.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,168 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,543 Posts
To the best of my knowledge, NYPD hasn't used ball ammo in quite awhile. I believe Speer Gold Dot is the current issue ammo.

10 for 16 isn't bad, considering what some others have done. I expect a number of those collateral damage events were through & through on arms/legs.

An earlier account I read indicated that a witness to the first shooting tailed the guy and grabbed the first available cops to pass the information on. Also that the deceased apparently either didn't get to fire or didn't choose to fire. One round in chamber, one in mag.

I notice multiple persons fleeing in a direction that put them in the line of fire. Also noted both officers using a shooting position I strongly doubt was taught at the FTU.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,200 Posts
Good points William and given that some bullets had ricocheted off of concrete planters, they may also have been bullet fragments. With a dense crowd the odds a bullet fragment would bounce in someone's direction were good. If nine civilians were wounded and there were six misses, it means either fragments or bullets that had passed through the suspect look likely.

In the video, one of the civilians who falls is seen out of the line of police fire so that looks like a ricochet or fragment hit.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,678 Posts
The report I saw this morning said all 9 who were injured were injured with either bullets or bullet fragments from a 9mm handgun. The assailant had a .45, so that about narrows it down.
 
1 - 20 of 32 Posts
Top