Gun Hub Forums banner

1 - 20 of 39 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,940 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
U.S. Marines defending the American embassy in Egypt were not permitted by the State Department to carry live ammunition, limiting their ability to respond to attacks like those this week on the U.S. consulate in Cairo.

Ambassador to Egypt Anne Patterson "did not permit U.S. Marine guards to carry live ammunition," according to multiple reports on U.S. Marine Corps blogs spotted by Nightwatch. "She neutralized any U.S. military capability that was dedicated to preserve her life and protect the US Embassy."

Source
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,499 Posts
A report I heard on Fox News Channel earlier today reported on this and the news commentor stated that authorities denied that the Marines had no ammo.
I hope that they had ammo....but the history of ..."things like this" are replete with examples of government goofery on things like this, denying military personnel to keep their weapons loaded.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,168 Posts
Update--initial 'no ammo' report incorrect:
REPORTS: Marines Not Permitted Live Ammo **UPDATE** - US Embassy Attack - Fox Nation
'**UPDATE**

'Further Marine spokesman at Pentagon Lt Col Chris Hughes says these reports are NOT true. This is on the record:

' "The Ambassador and RSO have been completely and appropriately engaged with the security situation.* No restrictions on weapons or weapons status have been imposed.* This information comes from the Det Commander at AMEMB Cairo." '
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
3,882 Posts
to all,

fwiw, both NBC & ABC Radio News at noon today were reporting that NEITHER "local hire guards" NOR Marines had ACTUAL access to live ammo.

after many years of military police work in AD, USAR & ARNGUS, i find the "NO LIVE AMMO" reports quite credible!
(this would logically explain WHY 10 Libyan guards got killed but NO terrorists were.)

do i have to tell you that BHO is a SERIAL LIAR, just as his Secretary of State & other DoS people are?????

yours, sw
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,627 Posts
I certainly hope that the Devil Dogs assigned to the embassy at least had ACCESS to ammunition. The info posted by Shep COULD be interpreted to mean that they NOW are so equipped, but may not have been at the time of the riots and attacks.

BUT...even if they had ammo, the Rules of Engagement are probably so convoluted and extreme that those young men and women may not have been able to fire to repel borders.

USAF SP's always carried loaded weapons while on duty...anywhere. Granted, our M-16's were carried magazine inserted, empty chamber, safety on. Handguns were fully loaded.

I seem to remember that Army MP's, who carried 1911's at the time, carried Condition 3. I remember quite clearly that in the early 70's in Berlin, when the Baader-Meinhoff gang were running hot and heavy, MP's posted at the PX and other public places carried M-16's with no magazines inserted. Struck me as odd even then, and I was a 17 year old long haired hippy-type.

They just recently approved troops in Afghanistan carrying their weapons LOADED in camp, following the murderous attacks on our guys by so-called allies on post.

Higher Headquarters can be idiots.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,678 Posts
So I was watching the news in the break room at work yesterday and some talking head was defending not carrying ammunition, saying they couldn't fire into crowds. And while they're on the other side of the wall, that's true, but the first person who scales that wall with a weapon, I say get's dropped hard. Do that 2 maybe 3 times and even the dumbest of demonstrators can begin to see a pattern form. It's the old, whatever's on that side of the wall is yours, whatever's on this side of the wall is mine.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,168 Posts
The Marines on sentry duty at the Beirut barracks in Oct. '83 were not permitted loaded weapons either.
From Wiki: "The sentries at the gate were operating under rules of engagement which made it very difficult to respond quickly to the truck. Sentries were ordered to keep their weapons at condition four (no magazine inserted and no rounds in the chamber). By the time the two sentries were able to engage, the truck was already inside the building's entry way, armed."
1983 Beirut barracks bombing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,360 Posts
My answer to riots was always spraying the streets with quad 50's. The ones who could still move would be moving away quite quickly.....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,627 Posts
The Marines on sentry duty at the Beirut barracks in Oct. '83 were not permitted loaded weapons either.
From Wiki: "The sentries at the gate were operating under rules of engagement which made it very difficult to respond quickly to the truck. Sentries were ordered to keep their weapons at condition four (no magazine inserted and no rounds in the chamber). By the time the two sentries were able to engage, the truck was already inside the building's entry way, armed."
1983 Beirut barracks bombing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
That's right! I remember that! It's never made any sense to me. Assign a man to defend (guard) a position, but make it impossible for him to do so. Idiocy.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,627 Posts
My answer to riots was always spraying the streets with quad 50's. The ones who could still move would be moving away quite quickly.....
Sarge, you are absolutely correct (although quad .50's might be a LITTLE extreme ;)). The only way to quell a riot is with violence. It has been proven time and time again. You either let run wild and try to maintain a loose perimeter, or you meet them on with as much force as necessary to make them disperse.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
3,882 Posts
to ALL,

Frankly, we should do precisely at EVERY embassy now what we did in one "hotspot" OCONUS, where i was stationed years ago. -

we were notified by the local police/military that we were going to be "hit" by a mob & that it "is your (our MPs) problem & we cannot be involved". so my boss authorized us to arm a squad of MPs with loaded shotguns (on each shift, 24/7) & to defend the compound.
his orders were to fire upon anyone who entered the compound but NOT to engage in any offensive actions against anyone outside.
(i cannot say why but "foreigners" are generally more afraid of our MPs shotguns & numerous volleys of 00 buckshot than they are of automatic weapons, but in my experience they are.)

when the armed mob arrived at the front gate that afternoon (i saw AK-47 rifles & some with molotov cocktails. - i'm sure that most, if not all, of the mob were armed.), they took a look at the 8 MPs, who were quietly standing about 10M inside our fence (with shotguns at "port arms"), & prudently decided to go elsewhere, "melting away into the surrounding neighborhood", without even one round being fired.
that was the one & only time that the mob "came to visit".
(all these years later, i feel sure that those 8 junior enlisted MPs that day saved us all from harm.)

yours, sw
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
3,882 Posts
Kevin Gibson,

WELL SAID.

you may want to check out my post above on what we MPs call: "measured response". = volley fire with numerous rounds of 00 buck, aimed at those persons who are a "direct threat to persons & property".

NO "wild shooting into crowds" but instead "enter our compound unlawfully at your peril".

yours, sw
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,499 Posts
Sarge, you are absolutely correct (although quad .50's might be a LITTLE extreme ;)). The only way to quell a riot is with violence. It has been proven time and time again. You either let run wild and try to maintain a loose perimeter, or you meet them on with as much force as necessary to make them disperse.
The Russians in Afghanistant awhile back used ZSU-23/4s. The 23mm round would discourage six to eight rioters...before it exploded. Weighed about a pound as I recall.
Geoff
Who notes it gets a mite tough on real estate values. :smile:
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
3,882 Posts
skeptic49,

fyi, i seem to remember that Firebase Leopard in I Corps had a MINIGUN (off a helicopter) in one of their towers.
(one wonders how many duece & a half's that it took to"feed" it.)

yours, sw
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,360 Posts
We "guarded" ammo magazines on Parris Island with empty M1's and they were challenging posts where I stopped the range officer (a crusty old WO) who cussed me out.

At HQMC in Arlington, VA. we guarded the Navy Annex (next to Henderson Hall) with 45's
loaded with a full clip and two more full one's on our pistol belt. I was an 18 year old Cpl.
and actually enjoyed roaming the empty halls where one could go into offices. Best office had a teletype where you could read the soon to be published news releases. I still don't know what we were protecting, other than the Commandant of the Marine Corps office (and if you shook the door knob hard enough it would set off the alarm and bring the Officer-of-the-Day running up).
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
3,882 Posts
to ALL,

this morning (09/15), "an administration spokesman" on NPR News stated that the guard force did NOT have ammunition "due to funding constraints".

The "spokesman" said that there "simply wasn't enough funding to buy everything". = in other words, once more, BHO's coven of crooks/fools/village idiots/HATERS & LIARS got caught AGAIN in a KNOWING LIE, which not only exposes their LIES but makes them LOOK STUPID.
(i wonder if he still has a job????)

yours, sw
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,499 Posts
to ALL,

this morning (09/15), "an administration spokesman" on NPR News stated that the guard force did NOT have ammunition "due to funding constraints".

The "spokesman" said that there "simply wasn't enough funding to buy everything". = in other words, once more, BHO's coven of crooks/fools/village idiots/HATERS & LIARS got caught AGAIN in a KNOWING LIE, which not only exposes their LIES but makes them LOOK STUPID.
(i wonder if he still has a job????)

yours, satx
Okay....I'm officially sickened at this now as well.
 
1 - 20 of 39 Posts
Top