[Steve k]

The H&k 93 and the FAL 223 look like MBR but sure dont feel like one when fired. Would you consider them a MBR or an Assault weapon?

 

[fubar]

well they surely aren't MBR material. so assault weapon is the choice.

 

[mjmensale]

I don't know about that HK93 looking anything like the HK91. It'a alot smaller in size.

But as far as your poll goes, they would both fall into the assault rifle category.

Moe

 

[bigchoad]

I subscribe to the theory that MBR's gotta be .308 or better

 

[Steve k]

Moe what do you consider to be MBRs. 91 is 308 along with the FN-FAL, M14(M1A) AR10, M1 garand( different cal. though)

 

[mjmensale]

I have a brand new HK91 Interport clone sitting in my safe. It's substantially larger than a 93.

MBR? In addition to those you already listed, I would add the Israeli Galil and the Stoner SR25.

But the Stoner is too expensive and finicky for us mere mortals.

The AR10 is a fine weapon but it's not battle proven yet. Maybe in some specops operations but not in general wartime conditions. I'm sure others will disagree!

Moe

 

[Steve k]

Need to add in the Sig Amt and PE 57 wouldnt you agree

 

[Quartermaster]

battle rife

my choice would be an H&K G3 or an already proven assault rifle such as the AK-84s.

 

[mjmensale]

Need to add in the Sig Amt...

Technically, yes. Realistically, no. It's too expensive.

...and PE 57 wouldnt you agree

Not familiar with it.

Moe

 

[M1911A1]

Select fire + reduced power rifle cartridge = (Real) Assault Rifle

By definition nearly all military 5.56mm rifles qualify (some should probably be considered submachineguns once they trim the barrel length to the point where the 5.56 is more like an overpowered pistol cartridge rather than the underpowered rifle cartridge it was meant to be).

 

[Steve k]

Moe if you want to familiarize your self with a SigPE-57 click da link

http://www.securityarms.com/20010315/ga ... 0/2396.htm

Ok heres the list of what is considered an MBR from this post. Price is is not the point here just what is considered an MBR. can any add to the list or argue that one on the list is not an MBR.

M1 Garand
M14/M1A
AR 10
Stoner SR25
Galil 308
Sig AMT
Sig PE-57
H&K G3/91
FN-FAL
Valmet 76 308
Valmet 78

 

[Lfox]

Sybil, you are coming around with those "Made for TV" sound bites again. Go home. The doctor called, your prescription is ready. Do us all a favor, take your meds like a good little boy.

 

[Metal Militia]

I would take a Main Battle Rifle anytime. Especially a semi-automatic M1A/M14 or a FAL made by DSA.

Am I wrong when I say a Assault Weapon or Assault Rifle would be a full automatic rifle with a magazine capacity bigger than 30-rounds?

I would not take a Assault Weapon (fully automatic AK-47, M-16A1, FAL) into any conflict. I would take a M14A2/M1A1, BAR, M243, M240 into conflict if I was supported by a squad with M16A2, M1A's, FAL, and or any other semi-automatic or tri-burst firearm.

 

[PAMEDIC]

Re: the issue is whether or not they do the job,

Put 60 gr NOsler Partitions in a 223, at 3000 fps, and they will still be excellent manstoppers at 300m. So little intentional hitting is needed (or gets done) at longer ranges, that the 223's likely leaving the guy functional for 20-30 seconds is irrelevant.

Tell that to the Rangers who were in Somalia, many of who made accurate centermass shots and were still unable to "knock down" their attacker's (who by the way had .30 cal rifles) And don't even get me started on the ballsitics of a .223 round after it hits a soft or even a semi-hard target. Accuracy & penetration goes out the window. Don't get me wrong, I like the mouse guns, I own a bunch of them. But I own about twice as many 308 rifles in various configurations. I also hunt with .30 cal rifles not a .223 manily for it's single round "anchoring" ability. Do yourself a favor, if you like the AR design & series so much, then go out and buy yourself an AR-10 in .308! you will get more practical use out of it.

:roll: 8)

 

[Grunt]

IMHO, .223 is to an MBR as "homosexual unions" are to marriage. You can change the definitions all you want but at the end of the day, an assualt rifle is an assualt rifle, a battle rifle is a battle rifle, and a "homosexual union" ain't no married couple! :wink:

 

[Guest]

a "homosexual union" ain't no married couple!

Careful there, Grunt. You might piss off the third-party voters.

 

[Bill Ricca]

I consider them neither. Since they are semi-auto only they do not qualify as an assault rifle, and I doubt any country uses these semi-autos as a main battle rifle. This straying of definitions is what has allowed the whole "Bad Black Gun" issue to be successful. Even in our advertisements we distort definitions to sell semi-autos.

I say they are neither, they are just semi-autos like Remingtons and Brownings.

 

[ChairborneRanger]

IMHO, .223 is to an MBR as "homosexual unions" are to marriage. You can change the definitions all you want but at the end of the day, an assualt rifle is an assualt rifle, a battle rifle is a battle rifle, and a "homosexual union" ain't no married couple! :wink:

The issue of it being an H & K aside, it seems to me that a .223/5.56 could potentially be either or neither. What---there are currently something like 68 countries using the .223/5.56 as the cartridge for their primary firearm---no other firearm, save the AK series, even comes close-----and even they are moving the AK away from the big 7.62 x 39 cartridge.

 

[Steve k]

Bill Ricca wrote:
"I say they are neither, they are just semi-autos like Remingtons and Brownings."

I knew I forgot that third catagory. Any way us lowly citizens cant own select fire so if TSHTF my M1A or Hk91 will become my battle riffle My 223 will then become my assault rifle. So it is all relative.

 

[Sunray]

"...The AR10 is a fine weapon but it's not battle proven yet..." And never will be. The new AR-10's you're seeing now are copies and marketing ploys of the original rifles that were built in the 50's by Armalite in the States and Holland. As I recall, they were used by the Sudan, Holland and very few other countries. Finland looked at them in 7.62 x 39. I heard only two in 7.62x39 were ever made. Always seemed like a good combination to me.
Anyway, these new high priced copies will never see combat. Very few, if any, of the originals did either. We had a bunch of 'em in the store I worked in. Nice rifle. All the ones that came in from the Sudan had sand in them. We never knew if it was bits of Sudanese desert or just crappy storage facilities. Shoulda bought one myself for $600 Cdn.
Of the new ones only the AR10B looks remotely like the originals. I must admit though, that aside from the excessive price, one of these in .243 is intriguing.