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He should've gotten the MOH for his service as a POW (as several others did). And he should have ridden off a hero. He should have gotten out of public "service" years ago--at least two Senate term ago.
 

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As I see it, there were two John McCains. One who was a hero that left us a long time ago, and the one that took over the earthly vessel left behind by the other.

The first I mourn, the second...
 

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As I see it, there were two John McCains. One who was a hero that left us a long time ago, and the one that took over the earthly vessel left behind by the other.
The last of the Keating Five from 1989, Meddling with the IRS encouraging them to harass Tea Party groups, turning the Steele Dossier over to the FBI ... How far into the deep state sewage could he go? Perhaps he was born into it. His father and grandfather were both four star admirals. In peacetime that's a political promotion.

Hey John: Who's your daddy?
(From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_S._McCain_Jr.#Early_years,_education_and_family)
He graduated in 1931, finishing 423rd out of 441 in class rank, nineteenth from the bottom.
How does a bottom of the barrel academy grad get to be a four star admiral?
 

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Performance at an academy isn't always a predictor of later success. A classmate of mine at the Air Force Academy actually flunked out and had to jump through all manner of hoops to get re-appointed. He struggled through to graduation in a somewhat less-than-distinguished manner.

Fast forward thirty-five years and Steve was a four-star general and the head of Air Education and Training Command, which counts among it's many installations the U.S. Air Force Academy.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Sort of like how most childhood "prodigies" fizzle out or plateau early... I know when Marcinko was putting together DEVGRU, he claims that he actively preferred the guys who struggled to drag themselves across the line rather than "gazelles" who cruised through things easily.

Heck, look how many West Point First Captains went on to become nobodies in the history books... I'd venture that even serious history students, unless they're focused on USMA itself, couldn't name more than they could count on the fingers of one hand.
 

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Performance at an academy isn't always a predictor of later success. A classmate of mine at the Air Force Academy actually flunked out and had to jump through all manner of hoops to get re-appointed. He struggled through to graduation in a somewhat less-than-distinguished manner.

Fast forward thirty-five years and Steve was a four-star general and the head of Air Education and Training Command, which counts among it's many installations the U.S. Air Force Academy.
You can't always tell how kids will turn out. My son wasn't an academic star in high school, and never showed any interest in airplanes or flying beyond going with me to the local airshow every year. I never expected him to be a super-achiever in life, but I also never worried about him--I always knew that whatever he did, he'd be okay and he'd be having fun with it and be happy. But he ended up getting a bachelor's in Economics, and today is a USAF (ANG) C-17 pilot and is in training to fly for one of the major US airlines. If I were any prouder of him, I'd have to wear those astronaut diapers all the time.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 · (Edited)
You can't always tell how kids will turn out. My son wasn't an academic star in high school, and never showed any interest in airplanes or flying beyond going with me to the local airshow every year. I never expected him to be a super-achiever in life, but I also never worried about him--I always knew that whatever he did, he'd be okay and he'd be having fun with it and be happy. But he ended up getting a bachelor's in Economics, and today is a USAF (ANG) C-17 pilot and is in training to fly for one of the major US airlines. If I were any prouder of him, I'd have to wear those astronaut diapers all the time.
And on the other side of the coin, I was one of those 99th-percentile "perfect score any standardized test" child prodigies who peaked early and am now a humble research wonk, relying more on brute-force "stick-to-it-iveness" than once-vaunted intellect. But if I had to choose between this life or taking the other fork where I had joined the local Leftist Elite as they were trying to groom me for (I was the test-score-inflating machine for their kids' special "gifted program" to hide that most of them were gifted more in family, wealth and political connections rather than real brainpower--one is now a state senator)... No Regrets, and thank God for a crusty old bus driver and Rush Limbaugh helping pry my eyes open to steer me off that path.

Snake, your pride is for good reason.:)
 

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Performance at an academy isn't always a predictor of later success. A classmate of mine at the Air Force Academy actually flunked out and had to jump through all manner of hoops to get re-appointed. He struggled through to graduation in a somewhat less-than-distinguished manner.

Fast forward thirty-five years and Steve was a four-star general and the head of Air Education and Training Command, which counts among it's many installations the U.S. Air Force Academy.
George Armstrong Custer graduated last in his class at Westpoint, and made General, by brevet. A career setback removed the possibility of any political asperations, which they say he had.

To be fair, he was aiming for cavalry, and at the time, cavalry officers were drawn from the bottom third of the class, so in a way, his luck was good ..... sorta.
 

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Custer was an arrogant ass. He left his "machineguns" and a third of his troops behind when he road into Big Horn.
Ironically, taking the Gatling Guns along (as General Terry had offered) might have saved Custer --- just not in the way it might be thought. They would have slowed his column down as they were cumbersome, often causing problems. Had Custer brought them, they would have been of limited use in the broken terrain, laced with coulees and hills that would have provided cover and concealment for the advancing Indian warriors, but no protection for the cavalry against the Sioux arrows, which are not necessarily line-of-sight weapons.

The delay bringing the Gatlings along would have allowed the Terry/Gibbon column, which made its own serious blunders approaching the Indian encampment, delaying them about 24 or more hours, time to catch up, and possibly an opportunity to join up with Custer's 7th.

He didn't "leave a third of his troops behind" when he road into battle, he separated them into two columns, one under Major Reno, the other under Captain Benteen. Reno's column hit the village first, but Reno failed to hold the momentum, panicked, and fled back across the Little Bighorn River, met up with Benteen, who decided not to join Custer but take up on what became Reno Hill and hold a purely defensive position with the inexperienced dingbat Reno.

Was Custer arrogant? Hell ya, but in the army of his day he did not have the ego market cornered; he was a bit player. He was a limited soldier with more luck than strategic expertise, and he paid the price, along with a couple relatives and a few hundred men on a terribly hot day on a hill near a infamous river.

/thread drift.
 

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I'd like to end the /thread drift and comment on McCain and his behavior as a POW but find I'm hesitant to damn a man now deceased.
 

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McCain was a hero just for "going downtown" to Hanoi.
He did as well as you could as a POW facing the NVA, AND Russian and Cuban interrogators, a fact the Left wanted to keep covered up as much as possible.

Where he hit the skids is where a lot of heroes come a cropper, and that's in politics.
My buddy had it right when he said that you know politics is a corrosive destroyer when an absolute straight arrow like John Glenn gets involved in corruption and craps all over his sterling reputation.
 

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McCain was a hero just for "going downtown" to Hanoi.
He did as well as you could as a POW facing the NVA, AND Russian and Cuban interrogators, a fact the Left wanted to keep covered up as much as possible.

Where he hit the skids is where a lot of heroes come a cropper, and that's in politics.
My buddy had it right when he said that you know politics is a corrosive destroyer when an absolute straight arrow like John Glenn gets involved in corruption and craps all over his sterling reputation.
Post of the Thread! :thumbsup:
 
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