[SpecialEd]

Hello all,

As I mentioned on a previous thread I was keeping an eye out for a nice used .357. Today I just happened to stop by my favorite local gun shop and lo and behold they had not one but two used Smiths'. One is a model 19-7 and one was a model 586. Both are of 90's vintage. Both are in excellent condition. They could probably pass for new. They are both going for $350 a piece. Does that sound about right? According to my Guntraders price book that is a little bit high.

The 19 fits my hands better but the 586 feels just a bit more solid (weight is all they are both tight and solid)

Any comments on the price? Any preferences on the models?

Thanks,

Ed

 

[JRWnTN]

One way to look at it is to compare the price to new models. (Maybe a little difficult as I think S&W discontinued both, in favor of stainless versions, 66 and 686, but you get the idea) If you bought a new one, what's its value going to be after a little use?

If they are in like new condition, and you're going to shoot alot anyway, not a bad deal.

Does the dealer have the original boxes with serial numbers? That seems to be worth a little more if you ever decide to sell or trade.

 

[LIProgun]

Ed, the main differences will be the way they balance and point for you, and the extra steel in the 586. The latter should only be a real consideration if you're planning on shooting lots of full-power .357 Magnum loads. The L-frames (like the 586) are essentially K-frames beefed-up to handle more magnum loads than the K-fames. After putting lots of rounds through both K and L frames, I think the difference will only matter to you if you shoot lots of magnum rounds.

As for the grip, just remember that there is a mind-boggling selection of aftermarket grips for S&W revolvers. Just check if the two specimens you are considering are round butt or square butt. I prefer round butt revolvers, but square butt works just fine. All S&W revolvers made after a certain point (in the 1990s?) became round butt, though they sometimes sport grips that make the butt look square.

My advice would be to try holding both with the same grips and see which feels best for you in terms of balance and pointing.

 

[Charlie Petty]

Yeah,,, what you said.

If they "felt" different it is due to the grips themselves not the gun for both models accept the same size stocks.

 

[SpecialEd]

Decisions decisions

Well I went back this morning and made my purchase. I had the hardest time deciding between the two. They were both in pristine shape, no marks whatsoever even in the chambers. I finally decided to get the stonger of the two So I got the 586. I wll get some thinner stocks for it soon but the shame of it is, the stocks it came with are very nice wood with grooves. Probably worth about $60 or more.

Anyway, I p/u a box of .38sp, .38sp+P and a box of .357's. This is the first revolver I have ever owned. I called S&W and accordig to the serial# it was made in 83. I tip my hat to the person who baught it, fired it rarely if ever and took care of it until I was ready to take it home.

Thanks for all the advice,

Ed

PS I hope I made the right choice. (difference in weight was a 1/4 lb)

 

[LIProgun]

Ed, if the revolver was made in 1983 I think (without checking Supica & Nahas -- which is not with me) it is a first model, i.e., a Model 586. You can confirm this by swinging out the cylinder and checking out the marking inside the left side of the frame.

If you have a Model 586 or 586-1, look to see if a letter "M" is stamped above the model number. If not, you should return the revolver to S&W for a free modification. If the "M" is there, or if the model is 586-2 (or higher), you don't need to do anything. But since your gun was made before August 21, 1987, you are in the range for the recall.

The older guns without the modification could be prone to cylinder binding, which could cause a failure to fire. S&W warned that mishandling a revolver while freeing the cylinder could result in accidental discharge. I believe the modifications involve the replacement of a the hammer nose and bushing.

I have an original 686 that was modified and stamped "M." Before I sent it for modification, I did experience binding with one (and only one) brand of factory .357 Magnum ammo. I think it was a 140 grain load, but I forget the brand. The primers would back-out and either cause the cylinder to drag or lock-up altogether. After the mod, I haven't had any problems whatsoever.

 

[Charlie Petty]

Good choice...

I think it was Winchester 125 gr. .357 that caused the problem.

 

[SpecialEd]

Thanks guys, I don't remember there being a M but I will check it again then call S&W again. You'd think the C/S rep would have mentioned that when I gave them the Serial# to find the age.

Thanks again guys,

Ed

 

[jar]

Most of the 586s I've shot seem to be most accurate with the 158s. But remember, if there are no pictures, they don't exist.

 

[JRWnTN]

I think it was Winchester 125 gr. .357 that caused the problem.

That's what I seem to recall, but why only one particular type? Pressure? Primer?

 

[Dean Speir]

I believe the modifications involve the replacement of a the hammer nose and bushing.

Right! Those were the two parts on that "M" recall… I think I sent 10-11 of my old club's Models 686 back to S&W in October of '87 for the upgrade modification.

 

[Charlie Petty]

The problem was that the primer would flow into the firing pin hole and lock it up. It was probably a combination of both primer and pressure.

I bet the person on the phone at S&W answered your question by simply keying the serial number in. It wouldn't tell them about the modification from serial number records so you got what you asked for...

 

[mikegunner]

Ed,

Mazel tov on your purchase. The only proviso I would suggest is to take your new purchase to a competent gun smith to have it checked out (Heck, the shop you bought from may either have one or can recommend one). They might charge you a bit of money for this, but it will be worth the peace of mind it will afford you. You will find that there are a lot of "closet gunsmiths" out there that don't know what they are doing and tinker with their guns to "lighten the trigger" or any number of other things and they can and do render a gun useless or dangerous. Then they take em to a gun shop or pawn shop and "trade" em in for something else. That liability concern is what keeps me from dealing with trade in guns except if they have come from a distributor so I have a means of recourse if there is a problem.

Mike

 

[JRWnTN]

The present K and L frame .357 Magnums have firing pins mounted in the frame. What was the reason for moving the firing pin from the hammer?

 

[jar]

The present K and L frame .357 Magnums have firing pins mounted in the frame. What was the reason for moving the firing pin from the hammer?

Cheaper to produce and works better with the lock.

 

[SpecialEd]

S&W

I called S&W again this morning and the rep said "yeah there was a recall back in the 80's, why you having problems with it?" I told him I just got it yesterday and hadn't had a chance to shoot it yet but some friends made me aware of the recall. He said "You can send it in if you want, they'll work on it for ya."

Anyway I took it to the range after that and fired 50 .38sp and 18 .357 loads. No hiccups. It's a nice shooter but I need a slimer grip.

Unfortunately, I have a lot jitter and wobble whatever I hold. I just can't seem to keep the sites still. (nothing new, I've always been like that) Sometimes I shoot better one handed from a draw -- at defensive ranges that is. Gross motor skills are better than fine motor skills. It reminds me of the Sundance Kid from the movie, he couldn't shoot unless he could "move."

Best,

Ed

 

[Charlie Petty]

But does it have the "M"?

Even if not, it's not likely to be a big deal.

 

[SpecialEd]

No, no M. Sorry, I thought I had mentioned that.

 

[csmkersh]

When Rob brought up the problems the early 586s had, I went to my safe and pulled mine to see which one I have. Turned out it's a 586-2.

While in the safe, I spotted my M13 and remembered that Rob had stated his preference for round butt revolvers. Me too. Took many years to come to that conclusion, but that's where I am today.

The Model 13-3 started life as a square butt, but I decided to make some changers in it. I replaced all the springs with Wolfe springs, bought an extra hammer and bobbed it then installed it into the gun. While this was going on, I ordered a set of round butt Sambar stag grips from Acme here in Texas. I took the pistol & grips to my 'smith and told him to make the hammer to the trigger, do a trigger job and cut the frame to round butt configuration to fit the grips. The result is below.

[IMG=left]http://home.earthlink.net/~csmkersh/images/S&W.JPG[/IMG]

 

[Charlie Petty]

Ed it's up to you, but given the cost of sending something back via next day you probably could get by nicely without it unless you do have a problem. My guess is that you'll get sick of shooting magnum ammo first.