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Discussion Starter #1
Folks,
I was checking the O.F. Mossberg site and spotted this:

http://www.mossberg.com/products/default.asp?id=45&section=products

Two years after Ruger? Many years after every body who could buy some castings?

I wonder why now. Anybody know anything beyond the website?

Anybody want to bet on a M1911 from OFM?

Well, if they are gonna copy how about a copy of a copy of a copy and put a conventional Ruger P-95 action on top a Sigma frame and magazine. And put on a decent trigger. OK, I can dream can't I?

Geoff
Who is a curious fellow.:dunno:
 

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Ithaca came out with a 1911, and the MSRP is astrofreakinnomical. I didn't see an AR from mossberg coming, but seems like they're getting into the game late. The market is already pretty saturated. it reminds me of a Skorpion with that grip.

Its probably a decent gun, though. I wonder how they're going to be priced?
 

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I'm betting that if the price is right, they'll sell enough of them. I know I was looking at one of their .30-30 lever actions, and the three my local gunshop had at the time were all VERY loose. Disturbingly so. Coulda just been a bad run, as I have had several Mossberg shotguns that took a lickin' and and kept on tickin'.

I would dearly love an M-4 for around $600...which is probably just wishful thinking. :(
 

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I love my Mossie shotguns so if this is a kick around for around $600 bucks I may get one and put it away for my grandaughter.
 

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The combined parts of an AR are cheap and easy to manufacture. Much less difficult than a Mauser style action so why are the prices so high? Markup. The prices should be down around $325 to $350 if the same mark up as other firearms were made.

Careful reading of contracts will find sop mod stocks being sold to the Feds for under thirteen bucks a piece. I used to buy forged lowers for forty bucks. Parts kits used to be under 30. The Feds just ordered some complete uppers from one maker for 179 or so each, chrome lined and all.

Remember that it was on NPR that we ordered a bunch of polish AK74's for $125 or so, with mags and five hundred rounds for less than $200. They were being secured to provide the Libyan nations weapons but I don't know if they to delivered or not. If you look at a howa or a TC or savage bolt and then at an AR the labor costs and material cost should make the bolt cost more.
 

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Hey, were I a stock maker, I'd be happy to sell DoD SOPMOD stocks at $13 each, provided the contract had a no-weasel clause, and they were buying 250,000 of them.

You want a dozen, you don't get the $13 price point.

If your assertion on markup is true, then Mossberg will make a killing at $500 each, and drive the price down. I'm not so sure.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Back in the 1970's when I was an innocent young Private E-2, the M-16A1 cost the Government $106 and change.

Of course the Government exempts itself from LIABILITY.

Geoff
Who notes according to the lawyers, every lawyer should be a billionaire.
 

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The combined parts of an AR are cheap and easy to manufacture. Much less difficult than a Mauser style action so why are the prices so high? Markup. The prices should be down around $325 to $350 if the same mark up as other firearms were made.
Do you recall the auto parts commercial about "Parts is parts"? Making parts and making parts correctly isn't the same thing.

I've been issued members of the AR family by various makers for over 40 years. There is a direct correlation between price (excluding certain makers unwarranted pride in their name) , quality and dependability. The way a great many lower priced makers manage to stay afloat is to accept parts that are outside acceptable tolerances or fail to operate a receipt inspection of parts to make sure they're properly made, which amounts to the same thing. In the long run, it's cheaper for them to take care of the occasional consumer who complains about 'issues'.

The thought that a stake-your-life-on-it quality AR type weapon could be retailed for $350 is fantasy. On another site we did a detailed debunking of excessive profit margins. Real short form, it used to be accepted practice that every time a product changed hands, the markup was about 30%. So, let's look at an example: Schlock Manufacturing makes an ARKlone with a MSRP of $1000. They ship to a distributor who ships to a dealer so what the manufacturer gets is about $400. I'm not going to get into all the costs of the manufacturer, that could take up an entire new thread.

IIRC the original contract price on the M-16 (not A1) was slightly under $100. On the other hand, do you want to go back to what you were paid in the late 1960's?
 

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Folks,
I was checking the O.F. Mossberg site and spotted this:

http://www.mossberg.com/products/default.asp?id=45&section=products

I wonder why now. Anybody know anything beyond the website?
I clicked on the specs link - 1/9 twist, button rifling, no mention of chrome lining. Mid $800's MSRP, etc. BL: it'll make someone a very nicely finished safe queen. I'm sure they'll give Olympic and DPMS a run for their piece of the pie ;)

In contrast, here's how Daniel Defense sells so many rifles...check out the specs here and the lack of digging needed to find them. The MSRP's about double...but I'd rather have one working rifle that I could depend on rather than two rifles that are questionable. And speaking of MSRP's, Colt 6920's are going for as little as $1100 now.

https://danieldefense.com/rifles/daniel-defense-m4-carbine-v3-lw.html
 

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Writeup on it in the new G&A. I didn't bother to read it as it's written by the aptly named Dick Metcalf, but the MSRPs don't look like it's gonna be a price leader. Yawn.
 

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For what it's I was visiting my favorite gun store yesterday, and they had a plain jane Colt AR-15A2 for $825. Brand new. No kidding. Nothing fancy, no removable carrying handles or picatinny rails. Round handguard, full length barrel, rear sight adjustable for windage and elevation, regular old stock.

Call me silly, but I'd take that for $825 over some tricked out M-4 that with all the add ons weighs more than that plain AR-15. And that plain AR-15 will have better ballistics with the longer barrel.

I didn't mean to go off point. It's just that if I can get a Colt at that price, it's an attractive option to, say the Mossberg, or the Ruger 556, which was retailing for almost $1500 at the same shop. :eek:mg:
 

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Careful reading of contracts will find sop mod stocks being sold to the Feds for under thirteen bucks a piece.
Reading of the follow-on contract documentation will reveal that the lost-cost vendor had to replace ALL of their delivered SOPMOD stocks.
 

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I stand by my post and my numbers. This is a topic I know about. Some of you know as well but I'll tell you the costs are not there any more. As to the vendor replacing those stocks it the contract went to magpul.

If they sell a few hundred thousand at 13 they should have no trouble selling a few thousand to brownells or reminggton/dpms/bushmaster for the same or a couple bucks more. No where is that collection of parts worth $135.

The mark up is there. It's enormous and until someone decides to wage a price war for market share, it's going to stay there.

If it takes $2000 grand to get a "reliable" AR, then there is something seriously wrong. I can get a Tantal for a fifth of that and it will work longer and in worse crap that the AR.
 

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Since $2000 grand would be $2 million, I've gotta agree there's better deals out there:rotflmao:
 

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I stand by my post and my numbers. This is a topic I know about. Some of you know as well but I'll tell you the costs are not there any more. As to the vendor replacing those stocks it the contract went to magpul.
Actually, the contract in question (W52H09-10-D-0024) was awarded to B5 Systems. Check out Modification 02 to Delivery Orders 0001 and 0002. These required the replacement of 2,800 and 7,800 buttstocks, respectively.
 
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