Gun Hub Forums banner

1 - 11 of 11 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,678 Posts
The high rates of fire goes with their thoughts on the use of a machine gun. I read something dating before WW II that said the reason the '34 and '42 had such high rates of fire was because when the enemy is seen you typically get less than 3 seconds. So they wanted to put out the maximum amount of lead in that window of opportunity. And it seems to work. The trade off is control and it's HARD on barrels. But that too can be managed.

Also, the higher rate of fire helps shrink down dispersal at longer range.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,543 Posts
Ummmm. The video notes the cyclic rate at 600-800 rpm. Another source gives 850 rpm. That's down from the MG3 900-1300 rpm and the 1000-1500 rpm of the MG42. Rawther pedestrian for a 7.62 GPMG.

What I'd previously read on the MG42 was that the gun was shipped from the factory with a selection of parts that allowed the cyclic rate to be set in the field. Apparently, it was also used as an aircraft gun and that's what the 1500 rpm parts were intended for.

The wider spread use of higher cyclic rates may have become doctrine, would be nice to know if it was pre-war or the product of experience dictating a change in doctrine. I'll buy Kevins justifications for the higher cyclic rate, but Russian human wave assaults would also matter. Doctrine did call for a change of barrel after each belt. IIRC, the gun came with a pack of 5 spare barrels and a mitt.

I expect the slower rates of fire on US MGs were legacy from the Browning guns where barrel change was an epic task, plus the ammo conservation preached by the supply corps.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,727 Posts
...which all makes me start to think that the old water-cooled guns of WWI weren't so primitive after all. That water jacket might look pretty attractive to a crew lugging multiple barrels, or frantically searching for a stream to dip a red-hot piece into. It also makes you tend to believe the stories of troops urinating on a barrel to cool it off.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,991 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
When I went in the Army I took advanced infantry training in a heavy weapons company, we were still using the water cooled brownings. The tripod alone with the T&E mechanism weighed 53 pounds. When you walked as much as we did in those days they got to be a real pain in the rear to pack around. As i recall each section had one wartercooled and one air cooled MG. But it's been a while back and my memory fades. Later they came out with alioghter tripod but we didn't see many of those. As I recall the gun itself weighed aboy 35 pounds. By the way we never used any of those condenser cans you see pictures of. I never saw one.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,543 Posts
...which all makes me start to think that the old water-cooled guns of WWI weren't so primitive after all. .
I expect you're not implying that Bearcat6 is a reeeaaallllly senior citizen......but the water cooled Browning HMGs were still in service in WWII. They featured prominently at Guadalcanal and other exotic South Pacific adventure sites.

JMB managed to create an aircooled .30 MG with the 1919, and the mighty cal .50 with the 1921, but further development funding was lacking during the inter war years. The result was stunted development and deployment early in WWII.

I had a late buddy who collected machine guns. His pride & joy was a New England Westinghouse built Browning (forget year-1918?) water cooled. They kept this particular gun as a patriotic display for their lobby. It featured rust blued parts and shiny brass caps on the water jacket and had all the goodies with it. Possibly the ultimate living room accent. It's in a museam somewhere now.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,991 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
The water cooled guns served well in Korea also.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,549 Posts
Now maybe someone can clarify something from the video.The first belt of ammo expended the guy removes the barrel and submerges in water are we to believe the second belt went through the same barrel?I would think that the barrel's accuracy after that would be useless.The features I liked from this platform was the barrel change out and the lack of recoil shooting from a standing position.A very nice platform maybe the best I have seen in a 7.62 from a layman.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,543 Posts
The part of the barrel that develops the most heat is the chamber/throat area and first few inches of the barrel.

If you noticed the cooling process, the muzzle end was being briefly dunked and a puff of steam would exit the breech. At that point (or slightly before), the barrel would be removed from the water and heat would bleed from the breech area forward. The barrel would again be briefly dunked and the process repeated until the barrel was cool enough for the entire barrel to be submerged without damage. So, the barrel was subjected to controlled cooling and reused without significant ill effect.

Now, had the barrel just been dropped into the water, there might have been cause for concern. Can't really say without knowing the temperature of the barrel and it's heat treat specs.

As they say on Mythbusters: We're trained professionals, don't try this at home."
 
1 - 11 of 11 Posts
Top