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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
During the 3rd debate kerry used the fact that 50% of the young minority males in New York City were not in school and did not have jobs. I've retired to the country and have some neighbors in their mid 70s' who have raised their two grandsons (now 13 and 16) while their daughter went in and out of jail/rehab and the boys father(gone, has another family) worked for cash so he could escape child support. While in the last halfway house the daughter had a baby with a guy also at the house. Now the Grandparents S/S supports the 3 kids and the two non minority "parents" who do not work unless the guy works for cash, so no taxes are paid by these two. They have the welfare "credit card" to buy food based on having 3 children and after tax time last year they received $1000 for each child, total $3000 as a "tax refund" These are healthy highschool grads who do not want to work and do not need health insurance because they can go to the county hospital and cannot be turned away. My point is that this has become a way of life for many young, and, not so young who use the kids as a means of income with funds that are meant to support helpless children. This can't be solved by more entitlements. Regards
 

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I don't think an afterschool program would help here.

However regardless if those people's situation, from the big picture perspective, Education (Bush's Plan) is the key.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
You are correct in that education is the key, if, the "student "wants to learn. When I lived in the DFW metroplex there were several progam schools where the "student" was paid to attend and learn a skill, and, after the training the schools whould place the grads with local business who were subsidized to hire them. Most would not make the 90 day probation due to not showing up for work.
 

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More underlies 'no child left behind' than meets the eye.

It is more accurately, 'keep the more intelligent back with the less intelligent'. In order to perpetrate this farce, the public school students are being dumbed-down. To hide this, the grade curve is constantly being lowered to make it appear all are doing better.

Truth is, they are graduating seniors with less intelligence than ninth-graders had 30-40 years ago.

The people who tout 'no child left behind' know this, but it would be political suicide to admit the program is raising the devil with actual intelligence levels (and is sending this country down the crapper)! :evil:
 

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Actually it isn't a reflection on the program. It is more a reflection on the teachers that we have now. Most don't want to figure out a way to get these students to learn,...
When my daughter was in the 8th grade I had a teacher tell me that the entire class drops one grade point ( IE..B to C) Her reasoning for this was that the students weren't mature enough to grasp the concepts. (math teacher, the concepts she was referring to was ratios)
It also comes from the school system trying to teach as many different ways as possible to arrive with the same answer. What happens here is the students get confused and start mixing the different ways together and are all messed up....
The biggest thing that I see is the separation of the "gifted" and the not so "gifted" students. If a "gifted" student can explain it to a not so "gifted" student that does two things, it helps the one needing help, and it also teaches the one helping to be a better person for giving help to someone who needs it. To many times I have heard, and seen kids who think they are better than another kid just because they are in 'umptysquat' class.
What really needs to happen is that the school system goes back to the basics for the elementary students and to bring the other education in as the student progresses through school.
To many kids aren't getting a good basic education in the elementary schools, and it is showing up on the other end....
 

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I'm not so sure I agree with equating intelligence to education. I know some folks with an abudance of education but don't give off any clues that they are very intelligent.
 

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No Child Left Behind seems to hold everyone accountable with the notable exception of the student.

Plus, the bureaucracy it adds removes valuable teaching time from the daily schedule of the average teacher.

The problem with today's schools is that there's no way to enforce discipline. I went to first grade in South Korea. Try to imagine an entire class of 6 year old boys sitting in classrooms of 50 (!!!) without any outbursts or problems. Ofcourse, the methods to bring about such order would be considered draconian by American standards. Such discipline allows an environment where an average teacher isn't overwhelmed and actually is able to teach.
 

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No child left behind has moved education forward, by holding under-achieving schools and teachers accountable, and it's working. I went to private school as a pup, and I now work in the public school system. I know for a fact that the kids here are learning at a level way above what I was learning at in the early 70's. Also, keep in mind that if a student mis-behaves in private school, they can be disciplined and/or expelled. Not so in public schools. If I came across 2 students beating the heck out of each other, I cannot even touch them to break up the fight. I have to call a laiason officer. Also, a lot of kids in public schools don't come from wealthier families, and many come from situations that don't resemble families at all. A lot of the kids are latch-key kids who spend 12-13 hours a day in school and day-care. That environment has a detrimental effect on learning. I wouldn't have wanted to have to do that when I was younger.........
 

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sensop said:
I'm not so sure I agree with equating intelligence to education. I know some folks with an abudance of education but don't give off any clues that they are very intelligent.
Amen to that. The corollary holds true, too. I've met a number of people who were not well educated but were very intelligent.
 

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What we need for getting discipline back is what we lost so many years ago...big, burly coaches and principals with paddles! My grandfather's paddle was infamous at the high school he worked at. He even drilled lots of holes in it to make it go faster! (lower air resistance) After he retired, the infamous paddle was stolen, so it's either a trophy in someone's house or was promptly burned!

"No Child Left Behind"=No Child Left Unbrainwashed
 
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