[DavidE]

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/12/w...litants-officials-say.html?smid=tw-share&_r=0

This is not good for the Iraqis. I'm not old enough to remember what happened in South Vietnam in 1975 but it sounds similar. With the added subtext that the west is arming the "Syrian rebels," while the Iraqis are getting drag-footed as far as help and supplies. (The article says the Iraqis are slated to get two F-16 fighters delivered to their Air Force in September, if things stick to schedule. By then, will they still have a country?)

 

[TooTall]

Iraq, and indeed the whole Middle East, shows every sign of becoming a real disaster with far reaching consequences and bears watching. To be honest it has me extremely worried.

 

[TommyGunn]

This is not good for the Iraqis. I'm not old enough to remember what happened in South Vietnam in 1975 but it sounds similar. With the added subtext that the west is arming the "Syrian rebels," while the Iraqis are getting drag-footed as far as help and supplies. (The article says the Iraqis are slated to get two F-16 fighters delivered to their Air Force in September, if things stick to schedule. By then, will they still have a country?)

No, but the terrorists will have 2 F-16s ........:banghead::banghead::argh::argh::argh:

Obama: :cluebat:

The Jihadis are clearly in the ascendancy, are CLEARLY winning .... and we're turning tail and running.
I never thought Iraq was the best place to send our soldiers ...but what Obama has done there should leave him open to criminal charges.
But it won't.
Nothing will happen.

I won't say what I really think of Obama here as I have no words for it and it would probably get me banned here inspite of how lenient most of the moderators are.

 

[stand watie]

TommyGunn,

I don't think that I really have to say any more about "Resident Zero" than SEEING/HEARING makes me need to VOMIT, preferably on his pointed little head.

yours, satx

 

[Kevin Gibson]

When we invaded Iraq, I told everyone that we'd be there for a generation at least. Well, apparently we didn't have the political will to be there for the long haul to wait out the generation of insurgents.

So if we're not going to be there, then we need to pick a side, and arm the hell out of them.

The problem is, this could threaten world oil market stability and if it does so significantly, then NATO may go in, or world pressure may mount for the US to go in and clean up the mess we made.

As for the aircraft, I don't see them lasting long. If they're not already sold to China, then we'll hit them from a drone post-haste.

Then again, I'm sure the F-16's they have are not our front line F-16's but much more like an export version of the F-16. I doubt this terrorist organization (whatever they call themselves) has a stock of qualified F-16 pilots.

 

[TommyGunn]

The two Falcon Fighters haven't been delivered yet, and won't be until September, so I presume we do not have to drone 'em quite yet.
We used to sell an "export" version of our fighters but some of the current export versions or "blocks" of F-16 models are more capable than what is in the current USAF inventory -- but I doubt these are what Iraq was slated to receive.
The terrorists likely don't have pilots, but pilots have wives and families who can be taken hostage by terrorists to assure compliance. Maybe that is a LONG shot -- as I said I don't think Iraq will even get the fighters. We must remember that the terrorists are ruthless and don't necessarily think like we do.
Anyhow it's a cl**terf**k over there. The Iraqi army seems to be abandoning the fight for the large part (some few do remain and fight) and we have an empty suit in the oval office and the country lacks the will to do anything.


I have a really bad feeling about this. Bush didn't do us a lot of favors and the hopey-changey guy is really laying the kimshee deep.

 

[CaptainGyro]

In the early eighties I delivered an aircraft to the Bone Yard at Davis Monthan AFB in Arizona. When you get there you taxi the aircraft to a parking ramp next to the building where the paperwork is finalized, transferring ownership from the previous command to the storage depot.

Well, on this particular day, sitting on the ramp were two beautiful, brand-spanking-new F-14's. These birds were pristine...not a scratch on the canopies, no grease in the wheel wells, exactly one landing on the tires, and still had that "new jet smell". Only one thing was strange: they were painted olive drab instead of Navy gray, and didn't have any insignia.

"Where the hell did those come from?", I asked.

The clerk looked up and said, "Oh, those were the last two produced for the Shah of Iran. Looks like they ain't gonna get delivered to the Ayatollah."

I wouldn't be surprised if Tucson has a few brand new Vipers in it's future.

 

[Kevin Gibson]

You know, I only put about 50% of the blame at Obama's feet. And he gets the 50% for not trying to convince the US public we need to keep a presence in Iraq. The other 50% is the US public who really wanted the US out of Iraq. Anyone with any sort of clue ought to be able to see that Iraq is a powder keg waiting to happen. It's going to take AT LEAST a generation for those people to learn how to live with each other. The problem is the religious makeup of Iraq, Shia, Kurds, Sunni's, Alawite's; they all hate each other more than they'll ever hate us.

I can't help but wonder where Iran is in all of this? I'd expect them to support Shiites with arms and intelligence.

One of the big concerns back in 1991 was if we took out Hussein and civil war erupted, eventually the Shiites would win in a war of attrition and then Iraq would merge with Iran.

If the US doesn't come to the aid of Iraq, then they will have no choice but to turn to Iran. If Iran goes into Iraq, they will NOT leave.

 

[Kevin Gibson]

Hit post too quick...

If Iran goes in, then Saudi Arabia will invade. If the Saudi's invade, then Syria invades on the side of Iran. And while all of this is going on, it's a fantastic opportunity for the Kurds to finally break off and become an autonomous state, and if they do that, then Turkey invades.

This could really turn into a really ugly regional war.

 

[Diamondback]

Give another huge portion to the nest of TRAITORS that are my ex-colleagues in the So-Called Unbiased Media as well, KG.

Never forget, we HAD the Cong and NVA BROKEN at Tet--they were All In and had even "pulled the goalies", except that the media and Uncle Ho's bitches Hanoi Jane and Hanoi John were shilling for Charlie...

 

[stand watie]

Diamondback,

WELL SAID!

yours, sw

 

[TooTall]

Hit post too quick...

If Iran goes in, then Saudi Arabia will invade. If the Saudi's invade, then Syria invades on the side of Iran. And while all of this is going on, it's a fantastic opportunity for the Kurds to finally break off and become an autonomous state, and if they do that, then Turkey invades.

This could really turn into a really ugly regional war.

It's already starting:

Some 150 fighters from the Revolutionary Guards elite Quds force had already been dispatched to Iraq by Tehran, and the division's powerful commander, Qassem Suleimani, met with Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki Thursday and offered to send two notorious Iranian brigades to aid in the defense of Baghdad. That could amount to as many as 10,000 soldiers sent to fight the ISIS.

US seeing signs Iran engaged in Iraq strife, official says | Fox News

 

[Skeptic49]

Unfortunately the Turks, even the new Moslem government have been enamored with borders drawn on a map. They also fear the Kurds after years of oppression and they fear a Kurdistan. The heirs of Attaturk, have more than their share of problems, exacerbated by the European Union, which may be shattering under Euro disaster as we text about the problems. The "boots on the ground" told the US of A what needed to be done in Iraq, but as usual our brilliant politicians listened to the Foggy Bottom broke down full of elite schooled ignorance and failed miserably. Cross refererence the utter failure of the Ambassador we sent in to screw things up in Iraq royally.

Afghanistan...ditto...

Geoff
Who thinks we should count up the dead and hang the State Department as traitors...when I'm feeling magnanimous.

 

[DavidE]

Update:

Top U.S. officer in Iraq: 'We must neutralize this enemy' | Military Times | militarytimes.com

 

[Kevin Gibson]

The last thing I want to see is the US engaged in another war in Iraq. But if we can stop ISIS now, it can forestall a much larger regional conflict, and that's good for everyone worldwide. It's good for Middle Easterners because they can refocus on nation building instead of wars, and it's good for the rest of the world because it will stabilize world oil prices. If we coordinate air assets with Shiite, Alawite, and Kurdish Iraqi's, with us in the air and them on the ground, we can beat ISIS back quite handily. But it will be up to the Iraqi people to finish the job on the ground.

This would also be a very good time for Iraqi Christians to buddy up to Shiites and take up arms. Shiites tend to be the most tolerant of Christians, so if the Christians take up arms and fight next to the Shiites, it will only help their situation in Iraq.

 

[TommyGunn]

This would also be a very good time for Iraqi Christians to buddy up to Shiites and take up arms.

Eeeeyup -- and I note Obama has finally stopped sitting on his hands and has initiated air strikes on ISIS and has also begun sending weapons to the fighters.
Nice going Obama; took you long enough.

 

[Kevin Gibson]

Eeeeyup -- and I note Obama has finally stopped sitting on his hands and has initiated air strikes on ISIS and has also begun sending weapons to the fighters.
Nice going Obama; took you long enough.

Took him about a month too long to draw the conclusions I came to in ONE DAY; what an idiot.

 

[stand watie]

Kevin Gibson,

EXACTLY CORRECT. = Had ZERO had ordered a hit upon the ISIS convoy (even 2 weeks ago) with ONE big airstrike with guns/smart bombs, we wouldn't have this problem to try to fix now. ======> Remember what the "talking heads of TV" called "the highway to Hell" that utterly destroyed the Iraqi Republican Guard's armor during Desert Storm???
(I'm just a "dumb, old, MP" but even someone like me could have ruined ISIS by ordering a single strike with aerial cannon fire & drones on a convoy that was "joyously riding along, flags flying" on a single hard-surface road toward Bagdad. = Btw, I strongly suspect that the USAF has Predators that are armed with Vulcans and/or mini-guns, as well as bombs that could have "done the job from 20,000 feet" & with NOT even one US casualty.)

yours, sw

 

[csmkersh]

The Prez calls criticism of his ISIS inaction horsesh*t.

Obama on Syria Policy Criticism: ?Horseshit? -- NYMag

Seems he doesn't handle criticism well.

 

[WaltGraham]

The Prez calls criticism of his ISIS inaction horsesh*t.

A subject on which he would doubtless be an authority.