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Discussion Starter #1
The security thread got me wondering.

How many people try to stay "off the radar" so to speak?I'm guessing not many here.

I belong to the N.R.A.,G.O.A.,J.P.F.O..
I get Soldier of Fortune,Shotgun News,Guns and Ammo,and American Rifleman.
I write to my elected officials weekly-state,federal,and local.
I call some of my elected officials monthly.
I go to the monthly city council meetings (they all hate me-I'm the only one that goes and says anything).
I own semi-automatic weapons and have no problem saying so.

I stand up for what I believe in and think if more people did the same,we would be in a lot better shape as a country.

I remember reading Freds column in Shotgun News about someone that was "laying low" until the time was right.Didn't write letters or belong to any pro gun groups.Pathetic.

I guess I'm just getting more pessimistic the older I get.

Thoughts?




Mods-I posted this here because I'm thinking survival wise;if there is an outright ban on ownership,where will we stand?
 

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carguym14 said:
The security thread got me wondering.

How many people try to stay "off the radar" so to speak?I'm guessing not many here.

I belong to the N.R.A.,G.O.A.,J.P.F.O..
I get Soldier of Fortune,Shotgun News,Guns and Ammo,and American Rifleman.
I write to my elected officials weekly-state,federal,and local.
I call some of my elected officials monthly.
I go to the monthly city council meetings (they all hate me-I'm the only one that goes and says anything).
I own semi-automatic weapons and have no problem saying so.

I stand up for what I believe in and think if more people did the same,we would be in a lot better shape as a country.

I remember reading Freds column in Shotgun News about someone that was "laying low" until the time was right.Didn't write letters or belong to any pro gun groups.Pathetic.

I guess I'm just getting more pessimistic the older I get.

Thoughts?

Mods-I posted this here because I'm thinking survival wise;if there is an outright ban on ownership,where will we stand?
Ever been in the military? Been fingerprinted for any reason? Guess what?
 

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Flighterdoc said:
Ever been in the military? Been fingerprinted for any reason? Guess what?
i didnt have a choice in the PDRNJ (new jersey) in order to own any gun you have to have a FA ID card. however registration isnt mandatory and if i buy out of state all is well..
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Flighterdoc said:
carguym14 said:
The security thread got me wondering.

How many people try to stay "off the radar" so to speak?I'm guessing not many here.

I belong to the N.R.A.,G.O.A.,J.P.F.O..
I get Soldier of Fortune,Shotgun News,Guns and Ammo,and American Rifleman.
I write to my elected officials weekly-state,federal,and local.
I call some of my elected officials monthly.
I go to the monthly city council meetings (they all hate me-I'm the only one that goes and says anything).
I own semi-automatic weapons and have no problem saying so.

I stand up for what I believe in and think if more people did the same,we would be in a lot better shape as a country.

I remember reading Freds column in Shotgun News about someone that was "laying low" until the time was right.Didn't write letters or belong to any pro gun groups.Pathetic.

I guess I'm just getting more pessimistic the older I get.

Thoughts?

Mods-I posted this here because I'm thinking survival wise;if there is an outright ban on ownership,where will we stand?
Ever been in the military? Been fingerprinted for any reason? Guess what?
Yeah,I've been in the military and been fingerprinted for concealed carry permits.But.So have many others.

I guess I'm wondering if you think your chances of long term survival during a gun ban or other .gov event goes down with being pro active for gun/civil rights and freedom.

Does anyone think/know if they keep "lists" of possible "troublemakers"?
 

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Sounds like Nazi Germany already! Fire arms ID cards? Fingerprints? Monitoring all bank and CC transactions? Today there was an article by rep; Ron Paul (Tx)on the big push for a national ID card and he was warning us not to accept it(God bless him!). The gov't naturally is saying it's for our own good and for our "safety" and "national security"!!! Yeh right!!! And I'm from the gov't and I'm here to help you!! When will we wake up and see that "we have met the enemy and he is us?"

The Iraqis have a 10% flat tax and can own machine guns upto 50 cal. . Does this mean that the Iraqis are freer than us? Does this mean the US soldiers fighting them are trying to make them free like us? What a messed up situation! Does this mean if we do what the Iraqis are doing to our troops,that we'll get the same deal?

Does the gov't keep lists of trouble makers? Why of course they don't!!!! (Are you interested in some swampland I have for sale?)


Fear a gov't that wants to regulate or take your guns!
 

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Unless there have been some recent changes, Iraq citizens could not own a firearm. Only those in power or close to it where allowed to own. If the citizens were that well armed we wouldn't be there now.

If you have a SS number, credit, own real estate somebody somewhere knows you. It's pretty much impossible to be invisible.
Unless you are jumping up and down trying to get attention I doubt the goverment can function that efficient to watch you.
 

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You mean like this..... :hypercolor: :hypercolor: :hypercolor: :hypercolor: :hypercolor: :hypercolor: :hypercolor: :hypercolor: :hypercolor: :hypercolor: :hypercolor: :hypercolor: :hypercolor: :hypercolor: :hypercolor: :hypercolor: :hypercolor: :hypercolor: :hypercolor: :hypercolor: :hypercolor: :hypercolor: :hypercolor: :hypercolor: :hypercolor: :hypercolor: :hypercolor: :hypercolor: :hypercolor: :hypercolor: Or like this.... :screw: :screw: :screw: :screw: :screw: :screw: :screw: :screw: :screw: :screw: :screw: :screw: :screw: :screw: :screw: :screw: :screw: :screw: :screw: :screw: :screw: :screw: Or maybe like this... :2guns: :uzi: :flameon: :biggun: :ar15: :rnr: :samurai: :2guns: But not like this.... :neer: :neer: :neer: :neer: :neer: :neer: :neer: :neer: :neer: :neer: :neer: :neer: :neer: :neer: :neer: :neer: :neer:
 

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Flighterdoc said:
carguym14 said:
How many people try to stay "off the radar" so to speak? I'm guessing not many here. Ever been in the military? Been fingerprinted for any reason? Guess what?
Yeah, been both military and fingerprinted. Last time I was fingerprinted was for my CCW. And guess what? I've been politically incorrect all my adult live, and getting better at the older I get. Would not want it any other way. :neer: :lol:
 

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NYprolitariat said:
You mean like this..... :hypercolor: :hypercolor: :hypercolor: :hypercolor: :hypercolor: :hypercolor: :hypercolor: :hypercolor: :hypercolor: :hypercolor: :hypercolor: :hypercolor: :hypercolor: :hypercolor: :hypercolor: :hypercolor: :hypercolor: :hypercolor: :hypercolor: :hypercolor: :hypercolor: :hypercolor: :hypercolor: :hypercolor: :hypercolor: :hypercolor: :hypercolor: :hypercolor: :hypercolor: :hypercolor: Or like this.... :screw: :screw: :screw: :screw: :screw: :screw: :screw: :screw: :screw: :screw: :screw: :screw: :screw: :screw: :screw: :screw: :screw: :screw: :screw: :screw: :screw: :screw: Or maybe like this... :2guns: :uzi: :flameon: :biggun: :ar15: :rnr: :samurai: :2guns: But not like this.... :neer: :neer: :neer: :neer: :neer: :neer: :neer: :neer: :neer: :neer: :neer: :neer: :neer: :neer: :neer: :neer: :neer:
:thumbsup: Performed just outside your local FBI field office might just get you noticed. LOL
 

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Trap; It sounds as if you might be the "Mad Trapper" deep down inside!! :samurai: :samurai: :samurai: :samurai: This could be something the gov't may want to speak to you about with one of their many expert specialists!!!! :hearseespeak: :hearseespeak: :hearseespeak: :hearseespeak:
 

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NYprolitariat said:
Trap; It sounds as if you might be the "Mad Trapper" deep down inside!! :samurai: :samurai: :samurai: :samurai: This could be something the gov't may want to speak to you about with one of their many expert specialists!!!! :hearseespeak: :hearseespeak: :hearseespeak: :hearseespeak:
As for the "MAD" part, yes you could say that but most people just say crazy. For the trapper part, 8) you might say I know a trick or two about traps of all kinds, but I was not thinking about those methods when I started that security devices thread. :lol: :wink:
 

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OOPS!!! I believe I saw bad thoughts just cross your mind young man!! You'd better get rid of them this instant or you'll be sent to bed with no supper!!!! Traps...You should be ashamed of your self Mr.Trapper!!! Those poor little bunny rabbits and cute little squirrels getting caught in those evil traps of yours...You should have your birthday cancelled immediately!! And get a switch 'cross yo a**!!!
 

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They can't lock us all in a concentrated camp???

SniperBait [/code][/list][/list][/img]
 

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Heard rumors there are concentration camps all over the US in undeclosed remote areas, but first they'd have to catch us all or we be constantly springing each other out.

Oh, and I've heard cats and dogs taste just like chicken. But, rabbits and squirrels don't. I'll have you all know, none of my traps are evil, they are just politically incorrect.
 

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You know the other day my brother asked me what I would do if they banned some or all of the guns I own. I told him that my first instinc, not being married or having kids to worry about, would be to call the media as well as the local law enforcement and tell them, I own guns, and our consitution says that "the right of the people to KEEP and BEAR arms SHALL NOT be INFRINGED" and that any so called "law enforcement" officials that attemot to come and take my guns will be met by resistance, and that they can have them when they pry them from my cold, dead, hands (y'all seen the scene in Red Dawn where the enemy soldier is prying that 1911 out of the dead hands of an american, right next to a 'cold dead hands' bumper sticker? haha). I would also attempt to assemble as many likeminded friends/family as possible to meet such a threat head-on; hoping that LE or US military would not be willing to actually shoot law abiding citizens who did not commit any crime other than to excersize their natural and consitutionally protected rights. I consider any LE official or organization, or state/local/national bureau or body or court, that flagrantly violates the plain language of our costitution and our natural, god given, and consitutionally protected rights, a rouge official/group that any citizen, but especially a patriot, is honour bound, and morally permitted and even required, to resist in any way, unto death if neccessary. LIVE FREE OR DIE! Now I am aware that many people, having more family resposibilities, may face tough choices in how to do right while miminizing the risk to their family, and I am also aware that the sentiment exressed in the motto LIVE FREE OR DIE! is an increasingly rare one, yet in my study of history I feel that it is better to meet evil head on at the first availible opportunity, and not to hide or try to remain "under the radar" and hope you as an individual can escape the evil that befalls your neighbors. I have been reading The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich, and I cant help but conclude that many, many, german citizens who were otherwise decent people took the easy way of avoiding possible retaliation from the nazis by not speaking out against them when they were coming into power, and the longer the people who didnt actually agree with the Nazis waited, the fewer of them there were, and the Nazis continued to consolidate and increase their power. By the time some of the germans got around to doing something about hitler (nearly ten years after they had formed a comspiracy, and eleven years after hitler came in to power) it was too late to change anything, and the unsucessful bombing was followed by all the opposition being rounded up and shot. In some SHTF scenarios, you and your family MAY be well served by a policy of bugging out and lying low until the storm blows over. A SHTF scanarion which is caused by an external war or terrorist atack, or natural disaster, might be solved without YOU standing up and sticking around to do something about it. However if the situation is one where we continue to lose our rights to an increasingly all powerful government, then hoping you can avoid trouble by dissapearing and/or hiding your guns is wishful thinking. The most the people have to do to really bring about a totalitarian police state in this country is to move slowly. If they ban the guns and a lot of the sheeple turn theirs in to be melted down (looks like pretty much all of them did in Britain), and the rest of us stash ours, then they have effectively won. I mean, if something drastic happens in a short time, then maybe we could fight back with stashed ammo and guns... but what happens in ten or fifteen years, when the ammo is getting old, and so are us who know where it and the guns are stashed, and no one has been able to get to the shooting range and practice in ten or more years, and our kids dont know how to shoot, etc. ? So if they come up with british style gun control here, I figure my best bet is not to submit (never!) and also not to try to keep 'under the radar', but to IMMEDIATELY and PUBLICLY stand up and declare that I am armed and I believe in the consitution, and I WILL NOT go quietly into the night, and hopefully I wont be alone, and hopefully the LEOs will not want to shoot first, and hopefully the politicians will have second thoughts when they discover that at least 1% of americans arent sheep, and we will not let the wolves eat us and out neighbors without the wolves getting bit back. Now if the issue were allowed public discussion, and a proper majority of the citizens in the US desired, and voted for, the repealment of the second ammendmant, then I wouldnt have any legal standing to resist gun control laws, but I dont think that will happen. And if it does, then maybe I will move to switzerland or something. But when politicians violate our rights and lie about it claiming our rights dont exist or that is is worth trading them for security, then I am not going to go along with it. I am not going to go and violate the current laws by building somethig illegal like an "illegal copy of an imported semi auto assault weapon" (meaning a FAL or an AK or whatever without thge proper number of US made parts) or build a machine gun or SBR or anything, even though I believe those laws are unconsitutional, but if they decide the guns I already own are going to be banned and confiscated, and I WILL resist. JMO, YMMV, hope yall give this some thought.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
I agree with most of what you wrote,MarkG,except for announcing your intentions.I believe you would be gunned down quickly as a "terrorist" with the blessings of the sheeple (Waco,Ruby Ridge,etc,,).

I will not turn in or bury anything either.I will choose my battles.
Have you read Unintended Consequences?I recommend it.

Glad you are on our side.
 

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No I havent read that book yet, but I heard its good and I probably will read it eventually. Maybe announcing one's intentions in an identifiably way would be reckless, but I would definately have to make them known generally even if not identified with myself personally, or at least not alone. I think it would be neccessary, as well as the equivalent of the declaration of independance. In this case it wouldnt be declaring independance from a forgein tyrant, but declaring an intention to rsesist, with force if neccessary, an unconsitutional government. Choosing your battles is a good idea, and I would reccomend choosing ones where you have a good chance of inflictin maximum results with minimal expenditure of eguiptment and casualties. However there has to be a lexington and a concord to find out who is serious before you can move to a guerrilla campaign. I am talking about a potential rouge US or state/local government here though; if the SHTF scenario involves forgein troops occupying our country to implement UN mandated global disarmament or some similar nonsense, I would advocate shooting the enemy on sight. But to my fellow americans I will prefer to let them know what the consequences of their proposed actions are before shooting, in the hope of avoiding violence and discovering the loyalty of the LEOs and military. We already know right now that many of our politicians and appointed leaders do not have our national interests or freedoms foremost in their policymaking descisions, but the time has not yet arrived when we are faced with the local law enforcement and the volunteer military possibly fighting a large part of the population. The BATF and FBI (and some state agencies) have successfully perpetrated murder and terroristic acts against our neightbors already, but they have been sensative enough to confine these criminal acts to small numbers of people in dispersed parts of the country and fringe groups that the population does not readily identify with. IF enough gun owners were to arrive at the point of either giving up their guns or resisting with those guns, that would include most people's neighbors, who are known to be decent people, not some 'seperatists' or 'cult members' people generally arent familiar with and are easily marginalized. But if too many gun owners stay quiet it will definately make those few that resist look like wierdos and abnormal, and possibly as bad as the MSM says gun owners are, and therefore deserving of whatever harsh treatment is intended for those who will defent their rights by those who demand complete control. So I think the most important things we can all do, besides voting and writing our elected officials, are to introduce more people to shooting, those people being our friends, family, and co-workers, and especially our children, who we know to be fairly responsible and productive citizens; and each of us deciding what our priorities are, whether freedom is really important, and worth fighting for, and doing everything we can to convince others that it is, and it is. But these are all difficult tasks. We all like shooting because it is difficult, and therefore challenging, yet it is simple; a skill to learn and master, and it provides control over our environment and an ability to neutralize threats facing ourselves and out family. Yet what is needed just as much as shooting skill is people skill, the ability to influence political beliefs, impart the philosophy of freedom, neutralize propaganda, and so on. These skills are much more difficult to master, and I will admit that I am not proficient in many of them. Most of all we need to stick together, and when one stands in danger of getting his gun banned; even though we dont own a .50 BMG, or a machine gun, or an AR 15, or a hi cap pistol, we should not allow anyone to try to take them from our neighbor. And when they come for your gun, and you stand in front of your home and say "come and take it" you should not stand alone.
 

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Why should we be careful what we say in public, to editors, or on the web? What happened to the 1st amendment? If you are not threatening or inciting civil unrest you are only exercising your God given rights. Anyone, especially politicians, who try to infringe or completely take away our rights should be publicly hung for treason. If you have ever filled out a yellow form for a firearm or bought ammo with anything but cash welcome to the list. Instead of thinking of it as a list to avoid consider it a list of American patriots willing to defend the Constitution for the preservation of our way of life. Where's a flag waving tyrant killing smiley when I need one?
 

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NYprolitariat said:
Today there was an article by rep; Ron Paul (Tx)on the big push for a national ID card and he was warning us not to accept it(God bless him!).
My understanding is that the "REAL ID" act was overwhelmingly passed by the Senate without even being read and was to be signed into law by Bush today - Thursday.

Hey, MarkG. :fineprint: :mrgreen:

Main Entry: par·a·graph
Pronunciation: 'par-&-"graf
Function: noun

1 a : a subdivision of a written composition that consists of one or more sentences, deals with one point or gives the words of one speaker, and begins on a new usually indented line
Moe
 

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MarkG said:
Now if the issue were allowed public discussion, and a proper majority of the citizens in the US desired, and voted for, the repealment of the second ammendmant, then I wouldnt have any legal standing to resist gun control laws, but I dont think that will happen.
Our Constitutional rights are not in place to support the majority of the population. They are there to protect the rights of the minority of the population.

That is the reason we are a Republic and not a Democracy.

But being a pragmatist, I would say that the possibility definitely exists for the states to repeal the 2nd Amendment. However, should that ever happen, I don't see the US going the way of England, Australia, Canada and the others.

As Claire Wolf said, it would be "time to shoot the bastards." But your way, standing defiantly in your doorway screaming "over my dead body!" will get you permanently dead. Not a good place to function from.

I don't see large groups from both sides facing off against each other either. Although if appropriate situations occurred this could possibly happen.

Which brings us to assassination (call it what it is). Overt and covert elimination of political, law enforcement and military targets at all levels of government. When you are pushed into a corner and face death you fight back with whatever tools you have available.

Moe
 
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