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Discussion Starter #1
Now that my two younger kids are coming of shooting age, I find myself wishing I were more like Snake and focused on a collection of .22's. Shooting with my kids has re-ignited my passion for rimfire shooting. Over the past year, I've been selling some of "my" guns to pick up guns more appropriate for my kids. Right now I'm trying to sell that new Beretta 92 to fund a Winchester model 61 (I go weak in the knees for pump action .22's). As for centerfire guns, my kids really like .32 ACP's which tend to be "scaled" just right for their size (ages 12 & 8…my two other kids are 24 & 21).

And as I get older, I tend to have just about NO time to spend at the loading bench, so .22's just make a whole lot of sense. But I find myself coveting thy Snakes rimfire collection. I'm building mine up as best I can.

Thus far, "for the kids" (hey, I'm a kid, just big and grey) I've picked up:

Winchester 62A
Winchester 61 (on loan until I fund it)
Rossi 62 (copy of the Winchester 62A, and a damn good one at that)
Ruger Mk III Standard (Damn thing out-shoots my K-22…that's a whole lot of value for not very much cash)

Centerfires
Beretta Model 70 "New Puma" in .32ACP (for both…and dad)
Astra A70 9mm for my daughter (see my review here: http://shootersjournal.net/the-astra-a- ... r-a-woman/ That's my little girl in the picture; cute
Century Sterling Mk4 Carbine for my son the Star Wars sun; he refers to it as "The Blaster" and it's pretty much the only centerfire he'll shoot.

My daughter also has a thing for my LW Commander, but that's an addiction I can't afford to feed.

Snake, you're a smart man; wish I got on that rimfire wave years ago, I'd be wealthier today.
 

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Kevin Gibson said:
And as I get older, I tend to have just about NO time to spend at the loading bench, so .22's just make a whole lot of sense. But I find myself coveting thy Snakes rimfire collection. I'm building mine up as best I can.
I have never regretted buying a .22. Nor shooting one. They're exactly like "real guns" except for the recoil. (And the cost of shooting.)

Ruger Mk III Standard (Damn thing out-shoots my K-22…that's a whole lot of value for not very much cash)
No surprise here at all. We had a thread on the Ruger forum the other day where multiple posters noted the same thing.

My daughter also has a thing for my LW Commander, but that's an addiction I can't afford to feed.
Ciener makes a nifty Commander-length .22 conversion kit for it. Best $200 you'll ever spend.

Snake, you're a smart man; wish I got on that rimfire wave years ago, I'd be wealthier today.
Came by it honestly. Having spent several years as a military small arms instructor, I grew to believe it was somewhere between a federal felony and a mortal sin to actually pay for ammunition. Shooting cheap Walmart bulk .22s is about as close to free ammo as you can get. :thumbsup:
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I'll probably pick up a Ciener kit for my 1911 at some point...probably when I finally get over sending my money to him. I've had quite a bit of experience with the Ceiner kits and they're damn good. But if by chance you get one that isn't right, you'll pay hell trying to get it right. I've modified a couple of them after Ciner refused to respond to his customer's complaints. Both had ejectors that fell out, and one had missed a cut for the ejector. Easy fixes, but Ceiner should have made it right. Still, like you said, it's a very good investment. Those cheap kits shoot lights out.
 

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You're better off buying a Ciener kit from a vendor such as Brownell's. You'll get faster shipment and better customer service if you need it. The downside is that all the vendors I know of only sell the full-lenth 1911 unit in the matte black finish, so if you want the gloss finish, or silver finish, or the Commander length, you'll have to take your chances dealing with Ciener himself. I've bought four units from him and only had an undue delay on one of them (the Browning P35 unit, ordered when they were brand new in 2004).

Here's a useful factoid: Due to the clever way they're made, any Ciener 1911 unit will go on and function on any (.45) 1911 frame, whether standard or Commander. The lines and contours might not match up pretty in the dust cover area, but the unit will work just fine. So if you want to get a 5" 1911 unit from a vendor, it will work on your Commander for your daughter just fine.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
The original one's were had a long spring cover area so they would fit on anything from an Officer's ACP to the full size. If figured that when he went to a dedicated Commander unit, that probably went away.
 

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Nope. The rear end of the spring tunnel is in the same place on both units.
 

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My wife has "stolen"'all but one of my ltwt commanders and even picked up two one her own. The last one was on a trip and we stopped at a hole in the wall bait/gun/autoparts store/boat dealer and I looked at but being on the road I just kept looking. She asked what I thought and I said "nice gun nice price but we're out of state." I moved over to look at reels and when I looked back she was writing a check and handing over a copy of our FFLs license. I had no idea she even had one.

Anyway back to .22's, and kids shooting. Find a Ruger bearcat. Perfect kids woods gun.
 

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Snake et.al.,

FYI, "homebrew" cast loads for my 1917 "P-17" (loaded with 6 grains of Bullseye) are nearly as CHEAP as .22RF shells AND that 140GR flatnose cast bullet WHACKS our BIG fox squirrels (& jackrabbits) FAR better than any RF load (at least those that don't tear up too much meat). =======> some of our BIG TX fox squirrels weigh about 2.5-3 POUNDS at maturity & i don't shoot them to LOSE them by the squirrel running into/dying later in a hollow tree!
(squirrel hunting is a RELIGION in NorthEast TX!)

fwiw, my 1917 "Enfield" rear sight is adjusted for 600yards for these loads & are "dead on" at 50 yards AND it provides much-needed practice for deer season too.
(my 195 grain cast loads for deer/hogs/black bear shoot to the same POA, with the "battlesiight zero", as my squirrel loads do.)

NOTE: fyi, my dear friend & cast bullet "guru", C.E. Harris, suggests 180-200 grain cast bullets (ours are cast from "backstop-recovered lead" over 16 grains of Hercules 2400 (about 1600FPS = the "old load" for .33WCF) for deer/black bears/hogs. = a TACK-DRIVING combination in my "Enfield" & EASY on "the old girl"/ my shoulder!
(this load will work in ALL post-1898 military rifles from 7mm-8mm, with similar results!)

to ALL: check out his article on these loads at: http://home.comcast.net/~gavinsw/guns/castbulletmilitaryrifle.pdf

yours, sw
 

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Discussion Starter #9
guntotin_fool said:
My wife has "stolen"'all but one of my ltwt commanders and even picked up two one her own. The last one was on a trip and we stopped at a hole in the wall bait/gun/autoparts store/boat dealer and I looked at but being on the road I just kept looking. She asked what I thought and I said "nice gun nice price but we're out of state." I moved over to look at reels and when I looked back she was writing a check and handing over a copy of our FFLs license. I had no idea she even had one.

Anyway back to .22's, and kids shooting. Find a Ruger bearcat. Perfect kids woods gun.
My youngest (8) really likes the "cowboy" revolvers, so I've been looking for a Bearcat at the right price. But considering my finances of late, it will have to be really cheap before I buy one...and Bearcats never seem to be cheap.
 

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Frankly, Kev, I wouldn't mess with the little Bearcat but would move right on up to a Single Six of some kind. Lots more of them around at various prices (though none particularly cheap anymore unless completely beat to hell).

If money's a concern (isn't it always?) look into the Heritage Rough Rider guns. I've never shot or even seen one, but have read many good things about them at RFC. Consensus seems to be that they're not Single Sixes, of course, but that they're solid, reliable, accurate guns that represent a pretty darn good value for the price paid. I wouldn't hesitate to give one the chance to earn my affection.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
You know, that’s probably good advice. Yeah, it’s really hard to beat a Security Six, they’re just fantastic revolvers. My main reason for the Bearcat is scale and weight; remember, this is for an 8 year old little boy. If I find a Bearcat at a real steal I’ll grab one, but it’s got to be a real steal because I know the Bearcat has a very limited attraction. That attraction is primarily for those who don’t own one in my opinion. But I certainly can’t be in the majority with that opinion because you don’t see tons of them on the used market. I think they’re a great little revolver for a kid, or perhaps something nice to stick in a tackle box, but the appeal doesn’t go much beyond that. Anything the Bearcat can do, the Single Six can do better, and for not very much more money. And for that matter, anything either of them can do, the Standard Auto can do better (except look cool).

I have shot a Heritage and they straight up shoot, damn near as good as a Single Six. The triggers are typically horrendous and the plastic safety is an abomination, but hey, they’re dirt cheap. Another little gun that’s far better than it has a right to be is the little Phoenix arms .22’s. Now admittedly I haven’t shot one of those since 1995, but I’m assuming they’re still the same basic gun.
 

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From the beginning of my shooting career, I've made it a point to procure a .22 conversion or dedicated understudy for all my favorite or "serious" guns, sometimes even before I've gotten the "real" one. (Sometimes I never do get around to getting a centerfire mate, such as in the case of the Walther PP and PPK and Luger.) Among others, I have .22 understudies for 1911, Browning P35, Smith K frame, Colt Python, AR-15 and M4, M1 carbine, Walther P.38, and Remington 700. I even bought and rebuilt an old Hi Standard .22 tube-fed auto rifle because I thought its stock made it feel and handle very much like a Rem 870/1100. The plan for that one was to knock off the rear sight and use it to teach myself short-range "snap shooting" using the front sight like a shotgun bead, but alas, it has turned out to shoot so far to the right for some mysterious, yet undiagnosed reason that this isn't practical, and I have to shoot it with the rear open sight tapped so far to the left in its dovetail that it's almost falling out.

I still have favorite guns for which I've been unable to find a satisfactory .22 sub. One of these is the N-frame S&W. I would LOVE to come across a .22 Springfield and/or Enfield that I could afford. But the biggest hole in my subcaliber lineup is a .22 match for M1 Garand and/or (especially) M14. How I would love to own a .22 M14 or .22 Tanker Garand! I do have a Squires-Bingham .22 auto rifle that's fairly heavy and has a trigger pull very similar to my PolyTech M14S; I've put a peep rear sight on it but of course the stock looks and feels much different from an M14. Perhaps I shall try to do something about that someday.
 

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There is a guy in my club who managed to put a 10-22 in a Garand stock. From a distance it would be hard to tell.

He also said he'd never do it again... :)
 

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I've seen that a couple of times, and even saw an article on it in Shotgun News last year. But there was one I saw many years ago that was just slicker than snot. I didn't get to really handle it, but somehow the guy put a 10/22 into a Garand...not just a Garand stock. Somehow, someway the rear sight, barrel and front sight from the Garand were all still there, but you could clearly see it was a 10/22.

I was in my late teens when I saw it and the guy who did it obviously didn't care for teenagers, so there was no chance I was going to get close to it; but I'm betting it was off the charts cool.

And didn't H&R make some sort of military-esque semi-auto .22. I wanna say I came across one a couple of years ago at a gun show, but it was going for so much money I didn't even tempt myself by picking it up.
 

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Kevin Gibson; all,

fwiw, Indonesia made a FEW functional .22LR Garand "clones" for TRAINING their equivilent of Junior ROTC. = those are $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$, when they appear on the market. - i saw one at the Houston "big show" for over 3,000.ooUSD about 3-4 years ago.
 

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H&R did a military-ish .22 called a Model 65 or 165 IIRC. They also did a very, very few .22 rifles that were tarted up to look a good deal like an M14. I read a review of one by Gary Paul Johnson many years ago. I'd love to have one of those!

I've seen some 10/22s put into Garand stocks and IMHO they all look like ass. The receiver size--specifically the depth--is just too big a burden to overcome to get a good looking result.

I've been playing with a different idea. I think you could put a 10/22 action low into a Garand stock, with the barrel exiting in the M1's gas cylinder position and the "barrel" on top being empty/unused or a complete fake. Up top you'd have one of those torched Garand half-reciever "paperweights" and its rear sight. I think a shorty "tanker" configuration done up that way would be just ultra-cool.
 
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