Pacific Rim 1911 Clones?

2529 Views 16 Replies 4 Participants Last post by mikegunner, Aug 9, 2004

SpecialEd

Discussion Starter · Aug 8, 2004

Anyone have any experience or opinions (he asks knowingly) with regard to the quality of NORINCO as opposed to the ARMSCOR guns, (i.e., Rock Island, Charles Daly)?

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Charlie Petty

· #2 · Aug 8, 2004

Ed I don't have any experience with the current stuff, but the consensus (of those I asked) was that the Norinco guns were a good starting point to build on or just fine for a service gun.

IIRC their problems were political, and I think that ban is still in effect.

mikegunner

· #3 · Aug 8, 2004

Ed,

I have a Norinco that I had customized by a guy Dean nicknamed "Bruno the Butcher". But as much as Dean "hated" the gun, when he tested it with S&B ammo, it shot 1 hole groups. Dean even wrote a story about it, but it never got published and I have never seen a copy of the story.
I have sold a couple of the Rock Island and Charles Daly 1911's and have not had any complaints from customers, take that for what it is.

Charlie Petty

· #4 · Aug 8, 2004

Mike, are those plain GI guns or do they have any extras like beavertails etc.? What are the approximate retail prices.

SpecialEd

Discussion Starter · #5 · Aug 8, 2004

From what I'm seing they are mostly plain GI guns and the RIA's are in the $300 range. While the Norinco's have not been imported for a while, they seem to pop up in the used market.

Thanks guys,

Ed

mikegunner

· #6 · Aug 8, 2004

Ed,

If you would like, I can look in the vault, I may have one of the Norinco's --- I can not recall ---
Another in-expensive 1911 firearm that is long on quality is the Auto Ordnance -- go to TGZ and read Dean's report on the one he got. Granted that was a Pre-Jusin Moon <sic...Kahr> gun, but the Kahr produced A-O weapons appear to me to be of similar quality. On the 1927's the current models are better to me than the pre-sale to Kahr A-O's.

Mike

SpecialEd

Discussion Starter · #7 · Aug 8, 2004

mikegunner said:
Ed,

If you would like, I can look in the vault, I may have one of the Norinco's --- I can not recall --- Mike

Mike that would be great! A NorinCo-mmander would be even better!

Ed

Alarmed

· #8 · Aug 8, 2004

I don't have any experience with the Rock Island brand 1911's, but I did sell quite a few Charles Daly guns, & had but one problem with one, a broken sear. I shipped it to Daly on a Tuesday & had it repaired & back in the shop on Friday.

The only bad thing I can say about a Norinco 1911 is they were made in china.

SpecialEd

Discussion Starter · #9 · Aug 9, 2004

Alarmed said:
I don't have any experience with the Rock Island brand 1911's, but I did sell quite a few Charles Daly guns, & had but one problem with one, a broken sear. I shipped it to Daly on a Tuesday & had it repaired & back in the shop on Friday.

The only bad thing I can say about a Norinco 1911 is they were made in china.

I get mixed reports on the Charles Daly (as with every gun I look into) There seems to be little or no middle ground. People either love them... for what they are or, hate them. I guess it's all a crap shoot. (I hear the same thing about Kimbers)

The China thing does bother me a little bit.

Ed

Alarmed

· #10 · Aug 9, 2004

From the little bit of experience I have had with chinese made goods, the early products are very well made & get good reviews. Then, once a good reputation is established, the quality quickly goes down hill.

The ban on importation of the Norinco 1911's went into effect before the quality started to wane.

I spoke to Bill Wilson in 1992 before sending him a pistol to rework, & he said the quality on the Norinco was superior to what was coming out of Hartford at the time.

I found a NIB nickel Norinco a couple of years ago & passed on it. As bad as I detest chinese products, I now kick myself for not buying it.

On another note, reckon how long it will be before Ruger breaks down & does a 1911?

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Charlie Petty

· #11 · Aug 9, 2004

I hear the same thing about Kimbers

You just hit a hot button of mine.

"I heard" makes me want to scream.

Doesn't anyone have any critical thinking skills left?

Don't tell me what you heard tell me what you saw!

:argh:

Now I'm going to take two aspirin, put a cold cloth on my forehead and lie in a dark room for awhile...

:soap:

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SpecialEd

Discussion Starter · #12 · Aug 9, 2004

I hear you Charlie (I mean... oh well nevermind) but unfortunately, I don't get much opportunity to SEE. I can fondle a few in the gun shop but very few opportunites to shoot something before I buy it. I also need a good all-around Special Ed-ucaton on the 1911... any recommendations?

Ed

Charlie Petty

· #13 · Aug 9, 2004

I'll climb down now...

I over-reacted a bit maybe...

My real point is that this industry is plagued by rumor and innuendo most of which is simply not true, some is malicious, and most is ill-informed. Dean coined "the disinformation superhighway" because all of the above can be spread worldwide and pretty soon becomes gospel.

We've talked about the "fat Franks" of the world and the gunshop cowboys who, simply because they stand behind a counter, become authorities.

So anytime something begins with "I heard" we should immediately ask "from whom" or "where is the evidence".

If we do that every time maybe in a generation or two some of the bs will go away...

sigh...

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mikegunner

· #14 · Aug 9, 2004

SpecialEd said:
Mike that would be great! A NorinCo-mmander would be even better!

Ed

If'n there is anything in the vault -- it will be a 1911A1 5" as I have never even seen one of the Commander sized Norinco's.

On a "commander" note, I got in a really nice commander sized S&W 1911SC (Scandium Slide). Less than 10 minutes after the UPS truck pulled away, it was down the road in the possession of a WV State Trooper. I got another in Friday and I will try to post a pic of it tomorrow. It felt very nice in my hands, but I have not had a chance to take it up into the range. Bad thing is that sale price on it is around $700 range

I do not know the particulars on the Kimber "problems", but I know my saleman asked me a while back when I placed an order if I wanted "new style" extractor gun or "old style". I asked him what the difference was and he commented that some people had reported "problems" with the "old style". I did not ask farther nor do I know the exact problems that were being encountered. I got in a "new style" for my customer, but he picked it up the day it came in, so I cannot compare it will any of the many Kimbers I have in the vault.

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Charlie Petty

· #15 · Aug 9, 2004

Mike is that a difference between the old internal extractor and the new external version... or is there a newer external?

I've been shooting the S&W 1911SC for a couple of weeks now. It hink it really does look good but the one I got had a very heavy trigger

mikegunner

· #16 · Aug 9, 2004

CP--

10 pulls with the Lyman Tigger Pull Gauge showed a NIB trigger pull avg of 4lb 15.9oz. pull. I would figure that with a couple of hundred rounds through her, she would lighten/smooth up a bit.

On the Kimber, I am not sure -- I only had the gun out of it's case long enough to verify the Serial Number --

Mike

mikegunner

· #17 · Aug 9, 2004

Wow ---

I was going to take a picture of the 1911SC to post here on Amback (the one I Lyman Trigger Pull Tested this morning), but a customer came in to pick up a A.H. Fox Custom Shotgun he had ordered in and had shipped to me, and he fell in love with the S&W --- so he added it to the 4473 --- I will have to wait until Wednesday when I get another one in.

Mike

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