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Do you like the paratrooper stock for a carbine?

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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm looking at getting a paratrooper stock for my IAI carbine but how good are they? Is it worth the money because I have seen them for around $130, are there cheaper ones anywhere? How do some of you like yours if you have one on your carbine? Thanks.
 
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Got one on my Inland. Like it very much. Makes for a very handy package.

I would chack the regs before I put one on an IMI receiver. You could be heading for trouble as the IMI was not issued with these and you could be making a dreaded assult weapon. :eek:

Check the archives, there has been much discussion on this subject.
 

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You may want to hold off. To my knowlege, there is no such thing as a pre-ban IAI carbine. That being said, I do believe that you would be breaking the law by adding the folding stock to a post ban weapon.

The general rule is you're allowed 2 evil features. Detachable magazine on the carbine is 1. Adding the para stock adds 2 more (pistol grip and folding stock) which puts you over the limit.

Adding the stock to an original USGI carbine may or may not be legal depending on the particular carbine, but I'm pretty sure that it is not legal to put on an IAI.

Your best bet to be certain would be to contact the ATF and ask them. Otherwise, if you add it and get caught down the road, you become a felon and don't get to own any firearms.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
That is what I thought, that it would be illegal. My friend wasnt sure but I had been reading about the "evil features" and I also have the bayo lug so that would be another feature. Thanks for your input.
 

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assault weapon regs

The assault weapon regs work as such: 3 or more of the following features make an assault weapon: pistol grip, detachable mag, flash hider, bayonet lug, collapseable/folding stock. This doesn't include class 3 features like suppressors, short barrels, or automatic fire.

Clearly most carbines are pre-ban, but it is against the law to put a folding stock on a weapon that didnt have it as original equipment. It isn't enough that a weapon is pre-ban. Most people ignore that. It's routine for people to put folding stocks on their SKSs, and collapseable stocks on pre-ban ARs.

How big a deal is it? not really a big one until someone makes an issue of your "assault" weapon. you are on the cusp when adding a folding stock to any semiautomatic weapon. An SKS with a folding stock gets by as long as you keep the 10 round bed, but the M1 already has a detachable magazine.

I certainly wouldnt bust someone for a collapseable stock that wasn't orginal equipment, heck I want one. But if you want to definitely keep to the letter of the law, go full auto or SBR and get a class 3 tax stamp, then you can have the sweet little rifle you desire, with the added fun of allowing the ATF to come look at your guns.
 

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folder on carbine

Arc, I appreciate your insight in the pre-ban issue, as it is very misunderstood. I have two legitimate M1A1's, but one is a Standard Products and came that way out of the Augusta Arsenal when it was re-worked way back when. I'd really love to put that stock back on an Inland but I'm waiting for the sunset of the AWB, if in fact that does happen. My early Inland M1A1 is a very nice and accurate package. I personally believe the recoil plate in the folders makes it a tighter and more accurate weapon, but that's m2c.
 

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bigbearu45 said:
That is what I thought, that it would be illegal. My friend wasnt sure but I had been reading about the "evil features" and I also have the bayo lug so that would be another feature. Thanks for your input.
I'm fairly sure the M1 Carbine is exempt from the "AWB," as are Mini 14's and 30's. I read it at the ATF website.
 

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If you would like to do some reading:

I have for you here the text of the law and a few articles.

The list of banned weapons, by name and feature:
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/t ... 18&sec=921

The list of exempt weapons:
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/t ... 18&sec=922

Two articles condensing some of the material:
http://www.ccfa.com/images/LegalSide.pdf
http://www.gunsworld.com/law/laws_clinton_us.html

Being "exempt" from the ban means you may possess said weapon, but if you read through, you cannot assemble something that fits the definition of an assault weapon unless it was issued in that condition originally. before the ban.

These laws seem very specific, but its all lawyer talk and the vagueries are there so those who wish to "gun grab." can exploit them.
Those of us who are in favor of the right to bear arms can also exploit the gray area, but you should really read up before you build anything near an "assault rifle" just because you have a "pre-ban" receiver or a weapon on the exempt list.

You also have to pay attention to the laws in your state. It is possible to obey federal, and violate state, and vice-versa. If you ignore any of this, you will make some liberal very happy, because they will take away _all_ your guns, not just the one(s) violating the law.

So for those wishing to put collapseable stocks or any other equipment on a given rifle, go ahead, but know you must be able to prove it was issued with that equipment. Most manufacturers, like Ruger, can tell you about your specific weapon, some, like Olympic Arms, cannot.

If you really really want your weapon to have everything "bad." go ahead and get the class 3 tax stamp. That will put everything above board. and depending on the state you can then go select fire or full auto, add a sound suppressor, etc.

Folks are welcome to argue this. I've been over it before, used to work in a gun shop that was licensed for military/le and class 3 civilian sales.

be smart, don't try to beat this stupid system, you can get pretty far using its own rules against it. All this talk isn't such a big deal until some loser makes an issue of your M4 carbine, or paratrooper carbine, or Mini folder, or SKS sporter. I know I reiterated some of the things from my earlier post, but its no good to just "think" you know. the rest of my immediate family are liberal democrats, I think I'm adopted. I have had a few "discussions."

sorry for the novel sized post.
 

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OK, here we go again

In plain english, if a particular firearm was not in an AW form at the time the ban took place, you can't change it into one later, no matter when the receiver was made, model firearm.....etc. The ATFE site is very clear on that one. But, I did send a letter of inquiry to the ATF for clarification, due to the carbine folder having both a pistol grip and folding stock incorporated into one unit, and there answer was pretty much useless. One of these days for the fun of it I'll write a reply, but personally I'm just waiting for the AWB to expire.

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#o18
"(O10) If a person is in possession of a frame or receiver for a semiautomatic assault weapon on the date of enactment, may the person acquire the rest of the parts and assemble a complete semiautomatic assault weapon? [Back]

No. It is unlawful to make such weapon after the law's effective date. [18 U. S. C. 922( v)( 1)] "
 

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I have been told that you cannot put a folding stock on a carbine unless it had the stock BEFORE the ban (It didn't have to have it as original equipment, it just had to have it before the ban). The reason for this is that the "pre-ban" carbine was NOT an AW before the ban if it only had 2 of the evil features (detachable mag and bayonet lug). Without a folding stock, it was never an AW. So if you add the folder w/pistol grip, you are building an AW from a rifle that did not fit the definition of an AW in the first place (pre-ban, though it may be).

Pre-ban FALs and ARs DID fulfill the definition of an AW, so by adding a folding or collapsible stock to such a pre-ban you are not making an AW, you are just changing features on a rifle that is grandfathered under the law.

I am not a lawyer, so I can't guarantee that what I have posited above is true and would hold up under the law. But the explanation does make sense.
 

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Just for clarification, registering a post-ban rifle as an SBR under the NFA DOES NOT make that weapon exempt from the 94 Crime Bill. For example, if you had a post-ban AR-15, you can fill out a Form 1, pay your $200 tax and register the weapon as an SBR. This would allow you to put as short of a barrel on the rifle as you like. However, you would still NOT be able to attach a flash suppressor, bayonet lug, or collapsible stock as it still needs to meet the provisions of the AWB.

You can also not attach a sound suppressor to a post-ban rifle like the AR-15, as ATF has ruled that a sound suppressor also functions as a flash suppressor. If the ban sunsets in September, you would then be able at that time to add whatever features you like to the rifle.

Only registered machine guns are exempt from the provisions of the AWB. You can contact the Technical Branch at BATFE for confirmation.
 

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Phil_EFMB said:
Just for clarification, registering a post-ban rifle as an SBR under the NFA DOES NOT make that weapon exempt from the 94 Crime Bill. For example, if you had a post-ban AR-15, you can fill out a Form 1, pay your $200 tax and register the weapon as an SBR. This would allow you to put as short of a barrel on the rifle as you like. However, you would still NOT be able to attach a flash suppressor, bayonet lug, or collapsible stock as it still needs to meet the provisions of the AWB.

You can also not attach a sound suppressor to a post-ban rifle like the AR-15, as ATF has ruled that a sound suppressor also functions as a flash suppressor. If the ban sunsets in September, you would then be able at that time to add whatever features you like to the rifle.

Only registered machine guns are exempt from the provisions of the AWB. You can contact the Technical Branch at BATFE for confirmation.
You most certainly can have a suppressor on an AR, or any other weapon. You can also have a number of features, you will pay a seperate tax stamp for each. I have seen numerous people get as many as 4 tax stamps on one weapon. It's a pain, but it can be done.
 

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You most certainly can have a suppressor on an AR, or any other weapon.
Negative. You cannot legally attach a suppressor to a post-ban rifle where it would add an additional "evil" feature to the rifle. In the case of a post-ban AR-15, you have a semi-automatic rifle with a detachable magazine and a pistol grip. These are all of the "evil" features that can be present on this rifle legally. No more. Attaching a sound suppressor to this rifle would constitute construction of an "assault weapon" in the eyes of the law. In fact, just threading the barrel to accept a suppressor could get you into trouble.

You could, however, attach a suppressor to a post-ban rifle like an M1A because since that rifle already has a flash suppressor in its post-ban form, you would not be adding an additional feature to the rifle. Not trying to start anything here, but you should check your facts on this issue.

Also, the transfer tax for a suppressor is paid on the suppressor itself, not on the weapon.

You can also have a number of features, you will pay a seperate tax stamp for each. I have seen numerous people get as many as 4 tax stamps on one weapon.
I don't know who you saw that had 4 tax stamps on one weapon. The only multiple stamp example I can think of off the top of my head would be a weapon like an HK MP5SD. You would pay for 1 tax stamp for the transfer of a machine gun and another tax stamp for the suppressor since it is an integral part of the gun. You don't just pay ATF $200 every time you want to add a bayonet lug or a collapsible stock. It doesn't work like that.
 

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OK what if you buy a old folding para trooper stock that is not in production anymore and you put it on a m1carbine .

The point is how is going to know if you put it on now or ten year's ago.

what kind of proof will they ask for if you get pulled over?
 

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Isn't it nice to see that our Government has made it soooo simple to obey the law? :wink:

Quote:
You most certainly can have a suppressor on an AR, or any other weapon.

Negative. You cannot legally attach a suppressor to a post-ban rifle where it would add an additional "evil" feature to the rifle. In the case of a post-ban AR-15, you have a semi-automatic rifle with a detachable magazine and a pistol grip.
I just love it when this little 'discussion' starts: I've seen as many interpretations of the law as people responding to these post. Lets just say that no matter what you do, you'll probably run afoul of someone or other when some GFW* complains about your poor little M1 Carbine 'folder.

Oh well, guess this is what we get for being law-abiding citizens.......the criminals just do it ('course, they seem to accept the idea of jail time a LOT better than I do! No, I do NOT want to be someones "girlfriend"!!! :eek: :eek: :eek: )

*GFW - gun fearing wimp
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"a generation that ignores its history has no past -- and no future"
R A Heinlein
 

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This would be better answered by looking up your local laws and regulations, The ATF doesnt go around pulling people over for traffic violations as they have no jurisdiction to. The only way that you would come across them is of the local or state LEO that pulled you over is trying to find something on you. But unless it is listed somewhere in your local state laws. In Texas there is no reference to any of the Federal AWB due to this fact, It is a federal law not a state law. I.E. your local police are not going to have anything to due with the prosecution or enforcement of it so they arent going to mess with it unless you give them a reason to contact the ATF and make them aware of this potential violation. Certain States have restrictions on possession of Assault weapons or parts of them, however the majority due not, go to any gun web page and look up a "assault weapon part" and you will no doubt see the list of states that these items are prohibited from being shipped to. There is no way to easily tell if the stock was put on before or after the ban went into effect, but remember this little tid bit of info, the Federal Government has billions of dollars on it's side, where as you and me have little in comparison. Basically it comes down to this, If you dont feel right about it dont do it.
 

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Fallout said:
The ATF doesnt go around pulling people over for traffic violations as they have no jurisdiction to.
Don't give the Libs any ideas, you know they'll try to get something like that through Congress.
 

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well Fallout

If you don't feel right about it don't do it.

For me doesn't feel right but I really want one LOL!!
I wanted one way back when I was in my 20's doesn't that count as pre band :eek: :lol:
 
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