[GunGeek]

Been watching this, and there are things that are just absolutely disturbing.

The first thing that really pisses me off to no end is learning that the French told the US if we didn't back the re-establishment of their colonies, that they would buddy up to the Soviets. WTF??? I would really like to know why Truman and Eisenhower put up with that crap!

The second thing that's really disturbing is the fact that right as the war was escalating for us (1965) is right about the same time that both Johnson and McNamara realized the war was basically un-winable! But they pressed the war because they didn't want to lose their jobs.

Then Nixon actually commits treason by sabotaging the peace talks to better his position in the election.

F-ing politicians...they're the real enemy.

 

[TommyGunn]

The war wasn't "unwinnable." It was just unwinnable the way McNamara and his wunderkind designed it.
In a way we really DID win it, but we then abandoned S. Vietnam to its vile and corrupt government (which also included many innocents, and allies like Montagnards) which managed to hold off until our jackwagon politicians pulled economic support. It took awhile but the commies eventually got their booby prize.

Remember; "There is no such thing as a good war or a bad peace."


WW2 was a good war, you think? I've learned things about WW2 that curdled my blood.

 

[GunGeek]

The war was militarily un-winnable. The problem wasn't US forces on the field of battle. We were in a war of attrition that we have to travel 8,000 miles just to show up. To win in Vietnam you would have to occupy every medium to large city completely for at least a generation. And that would have been a DUMB thing to do.

The problem was South Vietnam. Unless we could fix South Vietnam, we never had a snowball's chance in hell of winning that war. And South Vietnam wasn't something we could fix no matter how much we wanted to. It was just WAY too corrupt, and not even the US could fix that.

 

[GunGeek]

I just don't get why we didn't tell De Gaulle to straighten up and tow the line or we would personally give them over to the Soviets...would have served them right. We gave them their nation back TWICE inside of 35 years, and they had the stones to dictate terms to us???

 

[SpecialEd]

"Hearts and minds." And de Gaulle was always an ass.

 

[csmkersh]

Ed, you are too kind. De Gaulle was a coward who abandoned his men and sat out the war in England.

 

[SpecialEd]

Ed, you are too kind. De Gaulle was a coward who abandoned his men and sat out the war in England.

You're absolutely right. He did very little but always insisted on taking the credit. All ego and no substance. Prima Donna!

 

[TommyGunn]

The war was militarily un-winnable. The problem wasn't US forces on the field of battle. We were in a war of attrition that we have to travel 8,000 miles just to show up. To win in Vietnam you would have to occupy every medium to large city completely for at least a generation. And that would have been a DUMB thing to do.

The problem was South Vietnam. Unless we could fix South Vietnam, we never had a snowball's chance in hell of winning that war. And South Vietnam wasn't something we could fix no matter how much we wanted to. It was just WAY too corrupt, and not even the US could fix that.

We won every major battle against the north: even the Tet Offensive, which was touted by that ass Walter Cronkite as a horrible and shocking defeat for Merica, was actually a disaster for the north.
We ..."lost" Vietnam not in the rice paddies over there, but at home. You dont win "limited wars" for starters, and the war became politically untenable due to massive erosion of support at home undermined it.
Had we not used McNamara's limited war concept we might have been able to achieve victory before we lost support. Your point about South Vietnam corruption remains the wild card as it was always a horrible insoluble problem.
But the Vichy govt. In WW2 France didn't prevent an allied victory.
The N Vietnamese had some very wily leaders who knew how to fight off the conventional battlefield as well as on it, and that, combined with our peace movement and Washington fecklessNess TKO'D the war.